This is great, and no better person to be doing this.
If i can find time, ill try to participate.

Andrew.

The problem we have is that we are all practising an art that isn't 100% accurate . The people who want to see the results more than any other are looking for a high accuracy and also for ways to disprove that the art works.

I have had and continue to do so have debate with people over public rV work. For example the reporter for the Telelgraph article said that she didnt feel we fully answered her question. The question was 'are there any illegitimate children'. None of the viewers decribed any extra children - so what would this tell you - i know it gives me an answer.

RV and its analysis and the results are always interpretational at the best of times. Add to this heavily edited media like Tv then add that the environment is one of total disbelief in the art and IMO you are asking for problems.

Anyone rving for media needs to clarify the reporters/media  stance on RV form the start, you also need to take control and to try and at least get the playing field to a lvel stance before you participate. I managed to do this in The paracast radio show target, a little less so in te Telegrpah article and it showed. If you lose or dont have control over how you and your work will be presented you/I/we have to be prepared to just walk away.

Wayne should have demanded or discussed with Darrenn the parameters of the experiment, what would be presented, how and what would be shown - but I guess that's hard when your negotiating with Darren Brown.

Its all a great learning experience tho.

Daz

Your always at the hands of the final cut. Thats what happened with the Telegraph. She had enough info to make a good article, but the editor decided at the last point to redo parts of the article, i guess to make it more dramatic, and despite assurances we got what we got. Nothing you can do about it, other than to chalk it up to experience.

Its happens everywhere though, ive produced several martial arts DVD's, and despite one being all my own copyright the american distributor decided to reedit it, which meant some legal issues, USA based solicitors are expensive lol....

I think the thing about the Derren Brown show was that it was a foregone conclusion in regard to what he was trying to achieve, and anyone who had followed his previous work would have known that. In cases such as this you are not going to win, as the design will be biased, and the final edit will be biased also, and its unlikely you will get approval to approve the final cut, it doesnt happen that way very often in media. I used to have a small media company and the first thing that always happened with participants was waivers, consent forms and any legal paperwork.

I agree with Tunde, programs such as Derrens, where live demonstration against well know skeptics are being performed, should be left to much more experience viewers, not a place for the clueless newbies like me, lol.

A.

Tunde,
what they wanted from me was to show the method, to use their words, "to allow us to stage something". I got the distinct impression they wanted use someone with a loose method. They didn't seem keen on stages or coords etc. They clearly had in mind what they wanted. My offer of appearing was based on me providing the coord and brown working the session. The research team didn't seem to like that idea.

Sent using the iPod touch.

I am not defending Carr here but I do wonder how much they told him about the program. I also wonder if he claimed he was an expert or they just utilised that term. Irrespective Carr should have done his homework. I do personally feel that programs of this magnitude should be avoided ad a viewer participant unless your 100 percent confident you can do the job. I guess Carr felt he was. I am also sprised that given it was filmed three weeks ago that it hadnt slipped into the rv community that he was the viewer.

Woo hold your horses their loraine, I've never sent you hate mail. Your not worth my time, and hate mail Is one of the worst things you can receive, I know, since the telegraph article people have been sending mail wishing my son dead.

I resent that comment loraine, as it's not true. That's bang out of order.

[David Hasselhoff]

Hey sonny, they must be crazy! Otherwise shows like "BigBrother" and "Next Uri Geller" would never come to Germany (and fail big here ).

Two words for you, Katz.

David Hasselhoff.  

Thanks for that Marv, i now have an image of the Hoff playing with a pig in my mind now........

[the Expert]

Thanks for the link, Andrew.



That pic from the vid and "Carr, the Expert" made my day!

I especially like the fruit-basket, lol.

I see somone on Ed's Forum has posted youtube links to the show.
I would imagine clips and cuts of the show will pop up all over youtube over the coming days.

This is one such clip, with Carr doing his RV outbounder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t606f3b1c5g&feature=channel

I am in the process of trying to work out a schedule for next years training with Paul Smith.
If anyone is interested in training then please drop me an email.
At this moment i am looking at early next year, although that may change.
Training is limited to only a few places with Paul, so if you are interested let me know asap.

Andrew.

Hi Andrew

First, you still have not expressed anything in your post which indicates full comprehension of Derren's act. It seems to me that you have not grasped THE most important conclusion that can be logically deduced, or experienced any intuitive insight. Instead you make it ridiculously clear that you have prejudged any thoughts I may want to contribute as being not worth hearing. So, I shan't  waste my breath enlightening you with my take on things. As far as I'm concerned you can steam off into the deep end with a half baked analysis to shortchange Paul. For RV's sake though, you would do well to mention our exchange here to him, because he's sure to have a higher evaluation of my powers of deduction than you.

So regarding the other parts of your post -

"I think i am in a good position to comment on Derren's work, having went down a similar path in my youth. I was actually at several NLP events he was at, studied hypnosis etc and have studied Russian Physic work etc. In fact one of my martial arts class tricks is to freeze a student in a sit up position, with no contact, not allowing then to complete a crunch etc. I use manipulation in clincal practice, sometimes in a similar stlye to Brown, thats often how i get results with privare patients.
Hypnosis and suggestion makes up the bulk of my clinical work, and i also teach it for some schools also."

So, you think you are in a good position to comment. Did you think you were in a good position to comment to the Telegraph too? Anyone's background and the claims they make about their own capacities are not necessarily indicative of the likelyhood of them debunking an illusion. We are all equally qualified to comment since we all percieved the same illusion.

 
"Browns work is no where near as good as his previous. My feeling is that the Events was in many ways cut and paste."

Agreed. But, this is ALL you have said about your take on what was broadcast, and it doesn't begin to explain the full detail to any degree. It just states the almost obvious.
 

"But overall, their research team, Matt Pothercary, Dave Strutton etc all consulted with me last Novemeber, and Pothercary went into detail about the program. Initially it was pitched as two programs, one the Events, and one Derren Brown Unexplained. I always felt the unexplained was a con to try to get participants to devolve more information on subject matter, on the premise that Derren had turned a leaf, was believing something was out their. The girl from the team sounded less convinced than I.
Now, they had a list of RV'ers to approach, Carr wasnt on my list, Joe was number 1. They never contacted Joe. They knew exactly what type of viewer they wanted, i informed several people last novemeber of this stunt and what they where aiming to do. They asked me specifically about viewers to which i would not comment, those viewers mostly came from Brown and Angela Thompson schools."

Yes. As always, DB is 100% correct in selecting optimal people to utilise to meet his own ends. Why do you think ... .... .... .. ... ....?
(sorry for the dots but I don't LIKE to insult anyone, not even you)


"Carr has no excuse as far as i am concerned, BUT i also feel his type of viewing is widely being pushed in RV circles, people should know their ability level."

Agreed. And what on earth was that 'blending' malarkey - not anything I recognise as RV for sure'


"I wouldnt go on the show for the simple reason i dont feel skilled enough at RV, but after watching it i wish i had, i couldnt have done a worse job."

Agreed.
 

"Loraine, no offence, but you do like to insult."

No offence taken, since I am just one more thing that you are totally wrong about. And yes, I know that my last statement could be taken as an insult by anyone who was hoping to gather esteem in an emerging field, but you are entirely wrong. No one can decide and declare what another person likes! I do not like to insult, but, because you are an RV newbie ("don't feel skilled enough at RV") who appears clueless at times but is seeking to set himself up as the self appointed head of RV in the UK, an insult is an appropriate way to respond.


"I may not type well on forums (as mentioned before, i do have dyslexia) in your opinion"

I not sure who said that but it was not said here. You are quoting something said on your website last year when I naively tried to engage in a meaningful conversation with you. It may have been me or my son, but I am unable to check to see the context because you responded by banning us from your site so I am unable to comment.

Sincere apologies to everyone else who was reading what was a good discussion.

With best intent
Loraine

 



     

Loraine, you do make me laugh, lol.... Im a pretty sure Paul is happy with my comments in regard to the show to him, but hey, feel free to interogate him or mind probe him.

A.