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Author Topic: Subliminals/hypnosis? If subconscious mind doesn't understand words?  (Read 6390 times)
Jm151971
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« on: July 03, 2009, 04:47:39 AM »

  Lyn Buchanan, Joe McMoneagle, Paul Smith, Uri Geller, Jack Houck,  Russel Targ all  seem to believe that subliminals work from what I read.  But then it seems like alot people also say things like "the subconscious has no words, it doesn't understand words".  Well if  it doesn't understand words, then why do they think subliminals  really work?  It seems like  subliminals  wouldn't work if the subconscious doesn't  know what  words or sentences  mean.

  This same question I think applies  to Hypnosis and Backward messages (which is  supposed to be  your subconscious mind revealing it's true  feelings, etc.  http://www.reversespeech.com  how can it express itself through backward speech (which it does seem to do, at least in my own experiments)


  In my own experiments I would  tape myself talking throughout the day then play the segments backwards later, and very often I would hear a backward statement that has to do with the same subject I was talking about forwards at the same time. This happened pretty consistently, several times an hour.  Most of it was meaningless but every once in awhile a whole sentence or statement will appear backwards that usually is of the same subject that I happened to be talking about forwards.

thanks  in advance!          
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 04:02:05 AM by Jm151971 » Logged
Mycroft
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« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2009, 10:10:26 AM »

But then it seems like alot people also say things like "the subconscious has no words, it doesn't understand words".  Well if  it doesn't understand words, then why do they think subliminals  really work?

It is really going to be hard to persuade you one way or the other about 'if they work', because you're already pitting the experts against people whom in my opinion shouldn't be sharing their advice, so let just assume it works and get down to the mechanics of why the various methods work the way they do.

Layered subliminals increase the amount of change that can be done to the mind in the shortest amount of time. Don't worry about overloading the mind it will only accept what it can deal with, most subliminals used these days are above the auditory level anyways. Here is a good source for these as well as the ones that are layered backwards.

ref.
http://www.brainwave-entrainment.com/

When you've advanced to the point that you know your mind has access to all points past, present and future as well as all knowledge, then you'll understand that the mind can interpret backward phrases. The reason why they are backward is so that the 'conscious' cannot override what they are hearing.

Another method is the supraliminal, now you can't hear these, these are broadcast at a wave length that cannot be perceived with human hearing. She is heavy into hypnosis on her CDs as well.

ref.
http://www.deeptrancenow.com/

Your common variety subliminals audible and otherwise can be found here.

ref.
http://www.brainsync.com/

When it comes down to it, actual testing has taken place for many years that shows people have picked up the information in the subliminal training. That is the bottom line, even if you don't understand how it works, review the results.

Searching this site on the word 'subliminal' may also give you some insight, I'm sure the question has been raise before.

Mycroft
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Jon K
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« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2009, 11:51:02 AM »

Jm151971 wrote:
Quote
Lyn Buchanan, Joe McMoneagle, Paul Smith, Uri Geller, Russel Targ all  seem to believe that subliminals work from what I read. 

Could you please cite where any of these folks have referred to the use of and/or recommended auditory subliminal messages for remote viewing? (If that is what you are referring to.) Not saying they haven't but if so, doesn't seem to be a high priority for any of them, from what I have read. 

(BTW, for anyone who wants to try this, NeuroProgrammer 2 is an excellent cooldown program with many theta- , alpha-, gamma-oriented tracks. You can insert recordings (subliminal or otherwise) into any of these tracks as well, fading in and out, etc.)

Quote
But then it seems like alot people also say things like "the subconscious has no words, it doesn't understand words".  Well if  it doesn't understand words, then why do they think subliminals  really work?  It seems like  subliminals  wouldn't work if the subconscious doesn't  know what  words or sentences  mean.

Who is saying "the subconscious has no words"? Again, not saying people don't, but I can't think offhand of anyone in RV who has said something along those lines.

There is a lot of subconscious processing going on all the time...that, for example, leads me to type...these next words. They just "came to me". The subconscious mind / neural structures (most likely) - that entity (one way to think of it) - has a means of processing words, no doubt about it. Smiley  Words of course figure largely in dreams. That's when "we" are "in" our subconscious. So by most understandings of the subconscious, it would seem, words would be a part of that area of the mindscape.

Quote
This same question I think applies  to Hypnosis and Backward messages (which is  supposed to be  your subconscious mind revealing it's true  feelings, etc.  http://www.reversespeech.com  how can it express itself through backward speech (which it does seem to do, at least in my own experiments)

Mycroft's explanation of this is interesting. I heard a talk by the guy who popularized it, many years, ago. Have yet to see any convincing evidence of it. But then, I haven't listened for it for many years.

Cheers,
Jon
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« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2009, 04:49:48 PM »

In the neuro-tech field they are interested in everything that effects change. Common belief from what research is around is that if you cannot hear it consciously you are not really absorbing it. Also the theory is that the original thing that all this was founded on--that story about how subliminals during a movie caused a stampede of the concession stand--was a fraud. I have not had time to look much into this--because my interest is conscious stuff like sonic/photic waveforms, as well as hypnosis. But there is certainly a conflicting point of view about subliminal stuff.
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Jm151971
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2009, 12:21:17 AM »

Thank you PJ, Mycroft and Jon K for your  input on this subject!
Thanks for the links too Mycroft.  

  Jon K wrote "Could you please cite where any of these folks have referred to the use of and/or recommended auditory subliminal messages for remote viewing? (If that is what you are referring to.) Not saying they haven't but if so, doesn't seem to be a high priority for any of them, from what I have read."

 No, none of them specifically said that  subliminals were used for remote viewing whatsoever.  But they  referred to them in a few  videos  I have, just in general.  Paul mentions subliminals on a video called "Psychic Spies: The Remote Viewing DVD Learning Series" where he shows if you flash half of a picture to the right side of the brain and some other stuff, and how it's perceived  unconsciously.

  Lyn Buchanan says very clearly on the video called "Remote Viewing Methods: Remote Viewing & Remote Influencing" and says " You would be amazed at what a person can pick up subliminally if they are in another room and you are talking about something in the next room"  and then he says " Is it fair to use subliminals  on someone elses mind, etc".  He obviously is a believer in them, even on the cover it says "Subliminal messages have been embedded in this dvd"  I forget what the rest of it said.

  Jon K also wrote, "Who is saying "the subconscious has no words"?

  On the  Remote influencing dvd I mentioned above, Lyn says  a few times that when you remote influence, You do not use words, just pictures, feelings, emotions, because  the subconscious mind can't handle them.  Ed Dames  on his video "Operation Mindazzle" and I quote " the subconscious has no words or language"  the subconscious doesn't understand words.  

  And I thought that's the reason people use  ARV is because words, text, numbers have no meaning to the subconscious?  But I'm fairly new to this stuff.

  I agree, I would think the subconscious mind could indeed  handle  words, like Jon K said when we Dream we understand words, and that's the subconscious mind running the dream. I would say "Yes" it does understand words.  That is why I was surprised when Lyn basically said  Subliminals  are real and then later, he say's you don't use words to influence the subconscious, translate what you want into feelings, emotions, pictures, etc.  But then later on the same tape he says when he is doing an RI session, he  writes it out, both words and pictures, when he was attempting to lower Prudence Calabrese's blood pressure etc. I mean if the subconscious didn't understand words , then what's the point of writing  out your scenerio when you RI?   And  Ed Dames  said "The subconcsious has no words or language" but then later on the same tape he says when you're Remote viewing "information can come in the form of a sense or a word might pop into your mind" and says this is information coming from the subconscious being dumped into your conscious.  So why did he earlier in the tape say "the subconscious has no words or language".

 Anyway, Like PJ said, there's definately conflicting opinions and that big  experiment telling people to buy popcorn in theaters back in the 50's turned out to be exagerated from what I read in a couple books on subliminals.  I still think they probably work for some people as long as they are not buried too deep in the audio (for audio subliminals).  I guess the only way is to try it and if it seems to work, then it works ... if not then it doesn't. Self Hypnosis seems to work better for me personally, but then I just tried  regular subliminals.  Anyway, thanks  everyone.  

« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 12:53:46 AM by Jm151971 » Logged
Jon K
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« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2009, 01:23:25 AM »

Thanks, Jm151971 for the sources. Am not that familiar with those RV videos, but may have seen one or two of those. Seems like they are referring to something other than auditory subliminal messages.

Quote
On the  Remote influencing dvd I mentioned above, Lyn says  a few times that when you remote influence, You do not use words, just pictures, feelings, emotions, because  the subconscious mind can't handle them.  Ed Dames  on his video "Operation Mindazzle" and I quote " the subconscious has no words or language"  the subconscious doesn't understand words. 

I'm not going to comment on the specifics of what Lyn says here, but from my experience of 9 years in RV, I would say Lyn Buchanan says a lot worth paying attention to and Ed Dames doesn't.

Quote
And I thought that's the reason people use ARV is because words, text, numbers have no meaning to the subconscious?  But I'm fairly new to this stuff.

People generally use ARV to get answer to a binary question: yes, no, who's going to win a game, etc., although it can be used for 3-choice or more-choice issues as well. I think the assertion that words, text or numbers have no meaning to the subconscious is wrong. There's an awful lot of research that belies it. For example, to take a very simple case - when you say, write or think 2 + 8 = 10, where did the 10 come from? It popped into our minds - very simply from the mind's point of view, as it were, but it was made possible by complex subconscious processing. How about the + and =, those too are embedded in our minds but not present in our consciousness until we call on them. Numbers are hard to get with remote viewing, but doable at greater than chance odds. And of course text is very hard to get via remote viewing also. But it is not because numbers or text are somehow unreal to the subconscious.

Quote
And  Ed Dames said "The subconcsious has no words or language" but then later on the same tape he says when you're Remote viewing "information can come in the form of a sense or a word might pop into your mind" and says this is information coming from the subconscious being dumped into your conscious.  So why did he earlier in the tape say "the subconscious has no words or language".

Like I said. Smiley

Jon
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Jm151971
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« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2009, 03:45:27 AM »

Quote


.  
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Jm151971
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« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2009, 03:48:26 AM »

Thanks  Jon K ,  I see what you mean, just because text is hard to get via remote viewing doesn't mean that numbers or text are somehow unreal to the subconscious.  if  RVers often hear a descriptive  word in their head when they remote view, that means the subconscious obviously must understand words or how did it put that word into conscious awareness out of nowhere.  
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Jm151971
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« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2009, 04:05:50 AM »


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Mycroft
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2009, 12:31:21 AM »

I still think they probably work for some people as long as they are not buried too deep in the audio (for audio subliminals).  I guess the only way is to try it and if it seems to work, then it works ... if not then it doesn't. Self Hypnosis seems to work better for me personally, but then I just tried  regular subliminals.  Anyway, thanks  everyone. 

OK, I'm going to spill the beans on how well subliminal imagery works.

Remember the TV show Bay Watch? People have never been able to understand why that TV show was rated in the top 10 all 8 years it was on TV. Sure it had all the allure of the cheesecake nudity, but the analysis that monitor how fast a channel gets changed or what keeps interest regardless of how silly the subject matter never knew what was so captivating about the show.

Here's the deal, there is subliminal imagery in the first seven seconds of the prologue just before the first commercial after the show starts.

Frame by frame analysis by memory (bare with me), pun intended. Beginning at the first frame a the top of the 7th second. You will see a woman pulling down her shorts to reveal a thonged behind. Then there are 2 stutter frames of miscellaneous imagery, followed by another larger frame of all three women pulling down their shorts and revealing thonged behinds, lastly another miscellaneous stutter frame a picture of all three thonged behinds running toward the water, another miscellaneous stutter frame followed by a more distant view of three thonged backsides entering the water. The entire effect transpires in about 1/3 of a second. Think if it this way even if you blinked you're still two butts ahead of the game..

Subliminal imagery works even if you don't think you ever saw it. Bay Watch made millions and millions. So well did their little trick work that if the TV was tuned to that station even by accident during those first seven seconds, chances were Uncle Ralph, Aunt Mildred and even their 8 year old grandson would have stayed glued to that channel after the first commercial, when most TV programs loose to another.

Totally serious, if you don't believe me just video tape an old show or whip out an old tape it will only take 10 seconds to verify what I've stated. I have won arguments with die hard fans of the show repeatedly for years because even after hundreds of viewings they never knew...

If I told you what they did on Charlie's Angels you wouldn't believe me so I won't even go there. Subliminal works, there is no disputing it.

Mycroft
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