Any thoughts on IRVA ethics

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[PatMcDonald]

In case you had not noticed, IRVA have published a provisional set of ethical guidelines/boundaries for Remote Viewing.

http://www.irva.org/remote-viewing/ethics.html

Personally I think they're contradictory, unconstitutional (in at least 2 jurisdictions, US and UK) and tremendously loaded against the interests of a true double blind viewer, but until someone comes up with a better set.... they're all we've got?

I can't believe they're the last word on the subject.

[Daz]

Pat
First -

   
Any thoughts on IRVA ethics

Yep it an oxymoron.

I can't believe they're the last word on the subject.

they're not the last word - perosnally I wont be lectured to and told about ethics from an organisation that doesn't have them or follow them themselves.

Daz

[Mycroft]

Personally I think they're contradictory, unconstitutional (in at least 2 jurisdictions, US and UK) and tremendously loaded against the interests of a true double blind viewer, but until someone comes up with a better set.... they're all we've got?

Couple years ago when they first posted that I blew raspberries for a half hour, in my comments, I cited the amendments they violated

they're not the last word - perosnally I wont be lectured to and told about ethics from an organisation that doesn't have them or follow them themselves.

A God player doesn't ask permission, they just do.

Mycroft

[Fejita]

I agree with Daz.


Ethical Guidelines for Remote Viewers:

"We believe in and support the principles of verifiable truth, integrity, honesty, transparency, and responsibility in dealing with clients, persons subject to remote viewing as targets, the scientific community, the news media, law enforcement, and the general public."


What a bunch of malarky

[sonny5085]

ethics, are well in good, we all have them, less than, more than, better or worse than
other fellow viewers, having a guidline by an orginazation that can not govern itself and other
viewer organizations, clubs, ect, is just useless, ineffectiual and pointless.

I remember when I was taking computer classes in the 70's a moral test was in place , at the time
becuase computer law had not caught up to what computer programmers could do and get away with.

Legislation was behind , what was considered stealing, (morallly) had not any specific laws written at the time,
if for example you used a computer to order a truck load of lumber to build your house, and have the bill
paid for by 16 diff accounts to various hardware accounts, split up enough to not get noticed then in the early
days of computer orders, and lack of securitys, there were lots of cases like that, and several that were listed
on our test, that had been caught, we were shown how they did what they did, and then asked on the questionare the extent of wrongness , we considered, but under all the examples , in early computer years,
the legislation on computer crime was in its infancy, how it relates here to rv is a question , Im struglling with !

Rv being unregulated , so far as I know that is!

No great crimes commited that have been proven to be rv related, no enforcement code as a viable law anywhere to be considered by legislation is outa of the question by any govermental body, IMO.

To address that as a law, would be to consider it a viable form of something that is related to harm or could harm or cause loss .

The Fraudulent Mediums Act replaced the 1735 Witchcraft Act.
Is an article in a newspaper..here (In the uk or european zone)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/06/eu

But that is not rv, but we are in the same category as far as skeptics are concerned.

As far as I know, If you did use Rv in mange to steal the Lotto winnings, prove beyond a shawdow
of a doubt that you can at will win at any casino, and State Lotto, ect..I would expect Laws to be passed
quickly, and enforced !

They then would consider Rv an unfair advantage ! (be careful what you wish for?) We all as rv viewers know
that rv exist, that we can and view targets unseen by normal human perceptions (what the public skeptic considers normal as seen by the eyes and or touch perceptions ,such as they use daily) we violate those laws of normalcy all the time , in our forums here, and so far, we would like to be considered real and vialbe skillset !

If Joe Public saw us making money at will, there would be chaos , a future vision that may actully be in the psi stream as a future deterent in to itself as psi related self enforcement for failure as a protective mechanism a survival mechanism in place by the mind itself, (theory based or speculation) whatever ? morals ? we all have them perhaps they are already in place ? ethics ? A barrier is in place already Im sure one day we will pierce thru the veil, and see at will, anything, but as human race evolves at a snails pace, I for one see that we are not there yet, the human race isnt ready for that, if you could ? would you dare show yourself ?

[Tunde]

hmmm a very touchy subject this .... has been for years.

At the moment its pretty much a mute point because there are hardly any professional RVs left who can make a difference either way. However a team of crack world class viewers or psychics could cause damage on an unimaginable scale. So where do you draw the line ?

Until the scientific community begin to take RV and PK seriously and accept RVs real potential for either good or bad the question of ethics will remain again a mute point.

Even worse, if scientists cant accept the reality of RV and telepathy within the human species what hope is there of Governments world wide accepting the reality of beings from elsewhere using telepathy against us ... unchecked. That's another story for another thread for another day but you get the point.

Having said all that I think in the not too distant future we will begin to see psychic corporate espionage and even individuals stealing the ideas of others via psychic means. In fact I would be surprised if this was not already being done on a small scale today. If the millitary can use it as a tool for information gathering on its enemies for over 20 plus years well so can the corporate world. 

T

[Mycroft]

Having said all that I think in the not too distant future we will begin to see psychic corporate espionage and even individuals stealing the ideas of others via psychic means. In fact I would be surprised if this was not already being done on a small scale today. If the millitary can use it as a tool for information gathering on its enemies for over 20 plus years well so can the corporate world. 

T

Apple is doing both right now, a few years ago there was a take-down order issued for a hand drawing of an up and coming product being displayed on a blog. Apple had the picture taken down, they didn't even try to prove how they got it. $$$ greases the wheels for what passes for justice these days.

Why would I suspect a hand drawing? Hah, it reeked of a PSI effort and it looked like a good RV session and just looking at it reminded me of one of Tunde's better sessions...

Mycroft

[PatMcDonald]

Thanks to you all for the replies! I can't quite reply to everything raised right now but Sonny's post brought the following reactions. I guess I'll have to think about the others before opening my mouth.

The Fraudulent Mediums Act replaced the 1735 Witchcraft Act.
Is an article in a newspaper..here (In the uk or european zone)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/apr/06/eu

AFAIK witchcraft was decriminalised (ie, unregulated) in the 1950s in England and Wales. Don't know about Scotland. The current EU regulation is down to how services are advertised rather than how they are applied. And there is some common ground between them and the IRVA guidelines - in so much as making unrealistic claims about RV or misrepresenting the accuracy and reliability RV.

In fact, there's an awful lot I don't know about constitutional law. I think I'm going to have to do some reading to catch up with what is supposed to happen and what the rules of the game are, as far as legislation goes.

But that is not rv, but we are in the same category as far as skeptics are concerned.

As far as I know, If you did use Rv in mange to steal the Lotto winnings, prove beyond a shawdow
of a doubt that you can at will win at any casino, and State Lotto, ect..I would expect Laws to be passed
quickly, and enforced !

They then would consider Rv an unfair advantage ! (be careful what you wish for?) We all as rv viewers know
that rv exist, that we can and view targets unseen by normal human perceptions (what the public skeptic considers normal as seen by the eyes and or touch perceptions ,such as they use daily) we violate those laws of normalcy all the time , in our forums here, and so far, we would like to be considered real and vialbe skillset !

[/quote[

Surely a coincidence that IRVA is based in Nevada?

[Fejita]

Quote from IRVA ethics.

■  "Remote Viewers shall adhere to all applicable laws, statutes, and regulations of the state or province in which they are working, as well as of their nations of work and residence, in carrying out any operational or other remote-viewing activity on behalf of clients or themselves, and, in particular, concerning any living human person or persons as targets."


I want applicable laws would include harassment and assult.

[Daz]

Fejita,
Look no offence but across multiple threads you have made some 'scant' claims of being harassed and assaulted.

I personally don't believe a remote viewer can do these things - but if you do then this is where the problem starts. But before we go there - please stop hinting at something and if you really have an issue then in precise and clear detail tell us the exact nature of your problem in full detail and we shall see if we can help.

Otherwise please stop.

All the best...
Daz

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