CRV Expansion 2

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[Daz]

Alex,
please don't be put off its not Hate - just differing viewpoints.

What I am suggesting is a concerted effort by the Remote Viewing community, to deliberately, intentionally, spread the information of Remote Viewing through social media outlets for the purpose of expanding the interest of Remote Viewing. We will accomplish this by coordinating with fellow supporters of Remote Viewers…picking a date or a time period… and have everyone post, tweet, share, like, etc. during that time period. This should hypothetically generate a sudden extreme interest in Remote Viewing…hopefully capturing the attention of a certain percentage of the general population, which out of that small pool of people, an even smaller percentage will become serious RV practitioners.

Alex, IMO the best way this can be achieved is by very well designed and run - public RV experiments - not by soundbites of gimmicks. To date this has not been done very well.

I do feel Im doing my own small part in this 'grand' plan, I write, help out where possible, share sessions, do public projects and publish a free magazine. I don't know what more I can do.

If I’m going to reach enlightenment, I’m taking every human being with me!!!

LOL i wish you well but its never going to happen - Ive been told, shown and have experienced the universe works in ways to try and achieve 'balance' there never will be a 100% fully enlightened human race on earth - this isn't balance - but feel try to try.

All the best...

Daz

PS. I enjoy your enthusiasm.

[BigRed333]

Alexis:  I had deleted my account last week but re-installed it when i heard that you perceived that I was hating on you  Wanted to jump back in and clarify.   I don’t hate you, I don’t even know you.  And some remote viewing theorists believe that we are all connected; I believe this, so since we are connected, we are brothers and sisters, and they do fight and disagree, dang as a Marine I would think you understood that!  And I guess you didn’t like my “tone”?   Again, Marines are tougher than that!  What’s all this about a warm and fuzzy welcome.  I welcome you better than fake warm and fuzzy, I welcome you sincerely….and as a US Marine I would be honored to shake your hand and buy you a beer.  Thank you very much for your service to our country Alexis.

To stay on topic, your first post (to which I reacted so strongly) mentioned narcissistic generation and propaganda.  If you don’t expect me to react with strong aversion to this garbage then I am sorry, I cannot comply.  I have a bad feeling about this Alex, and I know you understand as a developing RVer how vital it is to follow one’s gut.  And now you come back with another definition of Propoganda and more garbage about dragging folks off to enlightenment.  It would be nice if you deferred to good advice asking that you stop spouting garbage, but I guess you will do as you please and I can’t stop you. And I also respect TKR and the majority rule (I mean in theory and practice I do, in honesty I don’t agree with majority rule), so if I am the minority voice telling you to please use that dictionary of yours more often, no make that a thesaurus, because Marketing Blitz is one thing, Propoganda is another.  I can’t even believe I’m having a conversation with someone about what propaganda means and how immoral unethical and just freaking disgusting it is, but this is rv world, strange things happen.  But having followed my moral duty to speak out, you seem to be a person with a mind of his own, so carry on, I won’t stop you.  Every once in a while I may swoop in like an American Eagle and sink my claws into your back if I really find you out of hand, but in honesty, once again, I probably won’t be reading the forums because I so often have dissenting views and I need to put my precious energy towards other things; much of rv world is not listening to me (I’ve had many skirmishes in other rv forums – you are far from the first I’ve locked horns with in rv world), so please do not take this personally – dang!  I far from hate you, I just am direct, and if I was spouting garbage and someone grabbed me by the scruff of the neck to stop me, I would be very grateful and take it as an act of tough love.  Not many people do that these days, and the garbage just continues stream in and to pile up, but I will go where I can to somehow slow the flow where I can here and there.  Best wishes in your rv studies, and thanks again very much for your service as a US Marine Alex, you will be in my prayers as such    –Sincerely, Mary

[RedCairo]

TKR is not anybody's turf. It is a public project and anybody seriously interested in remote viewing is as much a part of it as anybody else. If there were anybody to claim turf it'd be me since I pay for it, but I say the project charter is the master, and the charter says it's everybody's. The CRV section here is under daz's personal management, but within TKR it's a public board which still makes it open to anybody as that's how he has structured it.

IMO Alexis is feeling exactly what most people seriously interested in remote viewing but relatively new to it often feel: that it's the coolest thing around and that the combination of no promotion and sometimes unfortunate (or unfortunate-source) promotion is tragic, and that it would be great if RV's cooler parts could be better promoted to the world.

I was that way for many years. A lot of us were, some still are. There is nothing bad at all about that.

I got old and cynical, and now I believe that few people are truly capable of handling it psychologically without cracking. I'd rather have it be quiet, more like a shamanic path, and make people hunt it down and have to work hard at it. But, people differ.

Which is not to say that I wouldn't love to see a lot less BS and a lot more free no-nonsense information, always as a given -- which has been a big part of what TKR itself as well as Daz on his site and his boards here, have tried for.

But there is no good reason to make a big fight out of trivial stuff.

Daz and I (separately and often in different ways) have been involved in this subject since 1995. I don't know his opinion for sure on this, but I know mine: there are a lot of unfortunate things about the 'social world' of RV, but one of the most unfortunate, aside from the borderline personalities problem, is the inability of people to hold civil adult conversations. There is nothing wrong with opinion-critique, sure, and as the TKR charter says, "spirited debate" is a given, I love debate even fierce debate as long as it is REAL debate which means "about issues and points," but having a valid critique or questioning of someone's protocol or process point (or publicly available documented history) is not at all like just burying otherwise good conversations in pedantic social argument.

PJ

PS Daz I'm curious how one can reconcile CRV expansion with the concept of maintaining what is actually called CRV -- that being "the thing Ingo did as an unfinished experiment" as opposed to merely 'controlling' the internal RV process which I assume is every methodology usable for the art (including whatever freestyle thing someone chooses to do, with a degree of consistency and controlling intention). Does not expanding its definition by the same token, dilute its definition?  I'm just trying to start an argument        but seriously...

[RedCairo]

Enlightenment: Every blade of grass, as the Buddha said.

... it's gonna take awhile. 

[Daz]

Pj,
first I agree with your thoughts above I would prefer Honest, spirited debate - and have myself been involved and used in childish responses from people who cant debate their standpoint and turn to mockery instead to express differing opinions.

I love Alex's enthusiasm - it reminds me of myself in '95 when I felt the same - but years of toil have now hardened me to a realization of where RV is at. RV is an amazing skill with gargantuan potential - I still feel we have only touched the faint edges of its potential and that its us as humans that are actually holding ourselves back. This is done out of greed, ego, selfishness, stupidity and ignorance - some large scale human traits that rule across everything and not just RV.

Now back to Pj's question:

PS Daz I'm curious how one can reconcile CRV expansion with the concept of maintaining what is actually called CRV -- that being "the thing Ingo did as an unfinished experiment" as opposed to merely 'controlling' the internal RV process which I assume is every methodology usable for the art (including whatever freestyle thing someone chooses to do, with a degree of consistency and controlling intention). Does not expanding its definition by the same token, dilute its definition?  I'm just trying to start an argument  Grin  Cheesy  Wink  but seriously...

CRV - or controlled remote viewing - its just what is says - a way of controlling the remote viewing experience. Ingo and the others gave us a great foundation with the six stage process - but even Ingo was already experimenting with a S7 and S8, who know where Ingos' CRV would have gone if he and Hal had been involved longer and the funding continued.

Its my current belief that the 'foundation' of CRV - its six stage process should be learnt until the student is fluent and confident in its integration into him/herself. Then as this student ventures into the 'real world' away from the classroom into a wider world - they then may find that the actual tool isn't in its current format usable for all the needed situations throw at it. A good student would then learn to use other tools, to bend previous lessons and knowledge, to expand it as it needs to.

If for example you go to a fight with the skill of Karate - and you find your opponent is a wrestler - then once he is past your guard and has you in a lock - if you didn't lean how to wrestle then Karate cant help you any longer. Its the same with CRV - out of the box its great for teaching you to control your remote viewing - as a tool for operational use applicable to all situations the world throws at you - its not in a complete enough state to cover all these.
The student has to take responsibility to 'adapt and overcome' - to expand on the initial groundwork of the six stage CRV themselves. Nothing is set in stone - we have to expand all our knowledge.

I'm a great fan of Bruce Lee, he went out of his way to learn all he could form every fighting skill, he used this to then expand on his 'core' fighting method to create something better - something fluid and something that worked for him - that is what we have to do. CRV shouldn't be a box you have to stay in - yes, at first live in the box, get to know it intimately - then when the time is right - move outside the box and expand.

I see the six stage Ingo CRV as foundation to be built upon.
I'm convinced there are more things we can expand with that enhance CRV and not dilute it. Tome McNears additional stages concepts presented in the First CRV manual/document clearly show his thinking at the time on this too.

But it is up to the individual to be aware of the dilation - but then again - if CRV totally dissolves into something awesome that workings that well for the individual then I don't see this as being wrong either. I've already changed and expanded my use of CRV - does this make me any less of a CRVer - I don't believe so - I believe it makes a stronger CRVer.

[RedCairo]

CRV - or controlled remote viewing - its just what is says - a way of controlling the remote viewing experience.

Ah, but you see, I use it that way too privately, as a term, but I am careful about doing so publicly because "Ingo's Experiment" is what this term is used for in the marketing sense and for most people in the field.

You followed all that by making clear "Ingo's Experiment" is actually what you mean -- but it is one thing for Ingo's method to be "one way of controlling something," it is quite another to have the term "controlled remote viewing" actually MEAN "THAT way" instead of "any controlled way."

One way, the term is inclusive of any method of controlling the psi experience performed within an RV protocol. That is to say, anybody with a controlled methodology for psi, used within an RV protocol, could call it CRV.

Another way, the term is exclusive only to Ingo's method. Which does rather 'steal' common english away from the common language and into a trademark-like use. As if "remote viewing" as a term itself didn't already do that.

Now normally one of these two opposite ways of using the term is employed, but you are starting with the former (it means any controlled method), moving to the latter (it specifically means Swann's method), but then returning to the former again (ok Swann's method but also anything else which may change or even totally replace Swann's method for the individual).

Which is to say that by the time you're done with it, you've just divested the term of any meaning specific to Ingo's experiment.

Which is fine by me, I'm merely pointing it out.  

It means that for you because it's your interest. Still, wouldn't it have been nice if they all hadn't so completely screwed up so much terminology back in the day, so it wouldn't all be such a headache for us now. Not just about this, but the term RV itself, and more.

PJ

[Daz]

PJ,
I think to try to keep things clear CRV is a reference to controlled remote viewing - Ingo stylee.
other variants of controlled remote viewing have their own name and slant and yes you are correct in pointing this out.I don't want to make anything more confusing than it already is.

I'm saying for the student for years its the Soley the Ingo method - then when the student  is both competent and confident it can be expanded - its still Ingos style but can (hopefully)be added-to without damage.
I have done this myself, now does this make me a CRVer any more or should I class what I do as something else? Well its 90% Ingo CRV with a twist of Daz So I still class it as CRV. I believe we all just need to be open, honest and sensible with how and what we say.

Yes, terminology has not helped RV a single bit - sometimes my head feels like an alphabet soup of acronyms

All the best...
Daz

[MadManMal]

For me there is a natural sequence of events in life  "we learn" "we lose"  "we learn"  "we get better" it does not really matter what we want for other people in the end it will happen anyway because people get emotions and accept or deny,and if they deny it only slows the proccess somewhat. when we run as a group we generally end up at the slowest persons ability.
That is not to say that individuals cannot improve when the group is not all runnning together 
The good thing about RV it would seem, is that it is not age specific....and thats good news for i cnnot run as fast as i used too

[katzenhai2]

Any human being can find "enlightment" (as RV) only on their own. You can talk. You can give hints in a direction. But thats it.

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