ideograms

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[energycritter]

When RVing, do poeple have the same symbols for the same meanings, or, do you just make marks and then figure out what they mean?

In the CRV manual, it was long ago when I read it, but, if I remember correctly, it seemed like it said that the ideograms were consitant and our mind rendered the same symbol or marking for the same representation from person to person while RVing. I am most likely misrepresenting the text completely.

I was just wondering if I am to develope or remember the symbols, like mentioned in the TDS document of Pru's or do you just make random and reckless markings and then try to make something of them later.

I think I have already made to big of a deal out of the issue.....I am artistic in a legal rigid way, meaning, I am not real creative with my drawing of anything, I am too exact....I am good at archetecture and drafting, but, not free flowing art stuff...water colors used to freak me out due to the runs and drips....I like a nice neat line...crayons were not my friend in school, I wanted to stay in the lines....

I know..."step away from the box and no one will be hurt"...he he

aaaahhhhh, yet another box of mine....crap...

I will climb out of this one.....

BC the EC

[polka_dot PUH_JOMMIES]

yet another box of mine....crap

perhaps you might consider going into the box manufacturing business  

Here is how I use ideograms:
Right after I state my intent, I immediately do an ideogram (doodle).  I don't do it, I just let what ever happens, happen. takes 3 seconds and is about 1 inch big. It won't look like anything but a doodle.  After this, there is a process on how to read/interp the ideogram.

The ideograms that are 'set' are really a shorthand language you can create for yourself. Instead of having to break concentration to write the word(s) you can have a pre-established vocab for yourself.  

Don't get hung up on this part. It will come sooner or later. Just focus on doing some target sessions using whatever feels natural at the moment.  As you progress and get comfortable doing targets at all, you can add the other skills.  If you wait until you get 'all the rules' down pat first, you will never even start.  

Make you box, stand on top of it and jump off!!  Just jump in and do it.  After you do a few, many of your questions will answer themselves ( which of course, are replaced with 'new' questions  :-/ )

Nike said it best 'JUST DO IT'

[energycritter]

Thanks......

[wizopeva]

There are a number of viewpoints on this question of ideograms.  Lyn Buchanan of CRV would most likely say that yes there are commonalities in that some of the symbols are similar across lots of people.  But he'd also probably say that ideograms are still unique to you and only you can learn to interpret them.  Yours may or may not be the same as someone else's and which ones you develop are greatly dependent on your own personality, interests, and experiences.

THen on the other hand PRu and some other trainers feel that ideos have an inherent appearance to them, perhaps a bit like the universal unconscious and are usually easily distinguished between viewers.

Then there is my perspective which is that ideos are an agreement that is worked out between the conscious and subconscious minds whereby a language is hacked out so that the two can talk.  And I believe Lyn's approach gives a tad more say to the unconscious whereas Pru's approach puts more of the power to the conscious mind to dictate the basic rules.   I suspect either way can work, especially if a bit of leeway is given on the details...
-E

[energycritter]

Thanks eva....>>>I suspect either way can work, especially if a bit of leeway is given on the details...
<<<<

leeway on the details may work better for me while in the medatative state of mind than it has worked while fully conscious and cranking out thought. Like I said, I can be too legal about what and how I render things. Too technical, precise and whatnot.

My wife has given me a family art project that I plan to use as a way to help me express artisticly out of the technical perfect rendering box that I ussually live in.

I need to scribble and doodle more and render exactly, less.

Thanks, BC the EC

[waterway]

I think ideograms work as a "witness", an object we find attributes in that relate to attributes of the tasked object.

See.. in this weeks theory on how RV works, I think the subconscious connections are based on related characteristics of "things" or concepts in the mind.  The ideogram is drawn by the subconscious, then relates the drawing to the tasked object by some association.   In Warcollier's book he notes that often simple "characteristics" of a tasked object are viewed, such as an angle, or a simple shape.  Its these simple aspects, characteristics or properties of objects that are connections in our brain, and that is how the subconscious relates aspects of the task to the ideogram, and how we relate those aspects to things we know.  

None of that is original, its pulled from bits of lots of writers... but it helps me understand.

What do you think of that?

[energycritter]

What do I think....I think I like this subject...he he

This is good stuff....it seems that the ideograms are another way to render something, what that something is is subjective and depends on the person.

It seems a lot can be learned about and from ideograms, depending on the persons expression.

I look forward to trying to render in whatever way I end up doing so....I know I have trouble in this area of life, rendering a drawing or marks of any kind tend to stirr in me a lot of interesting personal limitations of expression and I look forward to getting over some issues by trying the loose rendering that appear to be ideograms. I am so used to knowing absolutly why I made a mark and what it means, the ideogram thing seems like a new welcoming frontier for me.....

Thanks, BC the EC

[waterway]

Well EC, this whole RV gig is quite useful for personal therapy, right?  Go for it.  

Go grab that "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" and work out those fears of expression.  btw, when it says "drawing on the right side of the brain" it doesn't mean it literally!  So here I am stuck with a bone-saw I will hopefully never use....

..... but back to the issue of ideograms.  Since we are looking at the ideogram as a "witness", you could use tea-leaves or bones or scrambled-eggs as your witness,  (separately, of course)  instead of a drawn ideogram.    But I think working on your graphical expression will be be doubly helpful...

[energycritter]

WW

>>>Well EC, this whole RV gig is quite useful for personal therapy, right? <<<<

Yes....it sure is....

as for the scrambled eggs, I can express very well through those...he he.....put thim in the skillet without breaking the yoke....let them cook until the white is 70% cooked...then do a little folding over as the scrambling with cheese on top and seasoning before folding over, then, do not over scramble, leave big chunks of yoke and big chunks of white....cook a little more, but, do not over cook and dry them out. Yum, now you have bites that are yoky and rich with flavor and cheesy....mmmmmmmmmmmmm

I need to start a topic/thread on RV as therapy....

BC the EC

[waterway]

.... yer making me hungry.  Its lunch time here on the East coast.....

....I didn't mean express yourself through eggs.... I mean using the scrambled eggs as an object to look at to let the subconscious "see" RV info in them, like a tea-leaf reader does.  

...hey, on the other hand... you may have something here.... (not that I ever doubted that...) but what if you plopped the egg in the pan, and then let your subconscious mind control the hand that stirs them while they cook.  Then remove the pan from the heat as they form, and look into the scrambled eggs to get RV info!  Sort of a "short-order" PSI session!  

Oh, for you vegans, you can use scrambled tofu instead.

...hmmm.... time for lunch....  I will RV using my tabulli at lunch to find out what we are having for dinner....