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#1148
 	
Date: Thu Nov 7, ?00? 10:4? am
Subject: Fear of Psi - Thoughts 	dennanm

  	  	

Not like there's not a zillion other things I should be doing, but I
wanted to write this down before I forget.  (I'm feeling better...? )

A week or more ago, my little girl Rykah who is 6 and I had a talk
about her fears.  She was having a suddenly open moment as we lay
snuggled together in my bed I guess.

She said, "I'm always so scared.  I hate being scared."

Of what? I say, worried.

"Well, of the dark, especially," she says.  "But like, you see that,
that thing on the ceiling?"

The unusual little pattern of light coming from the fishie lamp?

"Yeah."

(The pattern of light on the ceiling was a sort of random splash of
different shapes of light, from a tiny lamp with 5 christmas-like
bulbs behind five colored fish.? )

"Well, it's like... like some... a monster or something, could come
through there," she says.

A monster? I say.  How would he come through that?

"I don't know, but one could," she says somewhat defiantly.

I look at the light awhile more.

How come you're so afraid of the dark? I ask.  You didn't used to be,
and then suddenly you were, and I've never understood why.

She hesitates.  "Well, there's... you know... like shadows...
everywhere it's dark it's like... there's ALMOST someone there.
Something that could get me."

I didn't know what to say to that.  I was thinking, "Let me say the
right thing God, to make her feel better... what would that be??"

As I sat wondering, she said sternly half to herself, "I don't want
to be scared.  I hate being scared!  It's not real!  I'm not going to
believe any of it any more.  It's not real."

And I looked at her and I thought, Wow.  I think I have just seen the
birth of the planet-wide human fear of psi.  People don't
WANT "invisible" stuff.  The 'unknown' is a huge fear.

Well I wrote some notes on this but didn't think much more about it,
until Ken and Bill were talking here on pjrv about experiences
where "something came 'through' to them" as if from another dimension
or something.

Bill wrote:
> I noticed a "light" area on the wall..and just gazed
> at it.

and Ken responded:
> Maybe that's a key to scrying, looking for and focusing
> on something out of the ordinary.

Well that suddenly got me thinking.  Rykah had pointed at this
unusual light pattern on the ceiling as being 'the place' where
something could 'come through'.  Which is a lot like what Bill and
Ken were talking about; something out of the ordinary, especially
something that our mind doesn't have a pre-existing pattern for,
being a sort of 'doorway'.

Perhaps children, not having fully trained OUT their innate psychic
ability, have a much stronger sense of the 'potential' of these
things, and maybe of regularly pulling 'things through' without even
trying from babyhood.

Children seem profoundly in need of "nailing down" reality.  If you
tell a kid that a cat is called a cat, and then you refer to one as a
kitten, they will adamantly insist that it is a CAT, and it'll take
awhile to make them understand that a kitten is a type of cat.  They
have such a need to understand, to place clear labels on things, to
organize reality in the way their parents do, where there is a name
and a place for everything.  It's like their "survival skill" in our
reality is learning to do this, is learning to perceive and organize
reality in the way their parents and those around them do.

The "doorways", and information that appears such as through a voice
or vision that doesn't correspond to reality as we know it, seems to
threaten that survival instinct: it's an unknown, a "morpheous spot"
in reality.

Maybe the "Morpheous Spots" in our reality are more a matter of un-
fixing our brain from recognized patterns so we CAN allow something
to come through.

PJ

	
#1164
 	From: Bill Pendragon 
Date: Thu Nov 7, ?00? 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: Fear of Psi - Thoughts 	docsavagebill

  	  	

Hi PJ,

I think children can probably scry ?0x better than
adults and they will bring thru all kinds of things.
.. some real only in an imaginary way some verifiable
to many. I suggest you give her some spiritual and/or
psychic tools that she feels will protect her.  Denial
is one such tool. But it does not always work
especially if the child is a sensitive.  Positive
prayers and meditations..or a simple protective ritual
like the Cabalistic Cross  or a "magic" light saber..
with a charm on it.. or simplly better lighting in her
room. All will help. Robert Bruce had a lot to say
about children in his book on psychic self defence.

Best Wishes to you and Rykah!

Bill

------------------------------
Moderator's note: Well so far my approach has been to tell her that (a? ) most
things are just lost and looking for their mommy, they don't know where they are
and they're confused, so not to take them personally; (b? ) she is tough like
Xena, and can take most anything she meets; and (c? ) anything she meets that
really scares her, call on Archangel Michael, who will protect her, and if the
monster is REALLY bad, will KICK ITS BUTT.  LOL.  PJ

pjrv : Messages : 1151-1?81 of 4038 
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#1151
 	From: greenmn900...
Date: Thu Nov 7, ?00? 10:30 am
Subject: Re: Fear of Psi - Thoughts 	greenmn900...

  	  	

Hi.
I think a fear of the unknown is genetically programmed into all species to
one degree or another.  I train dogs for a living.  Over the years I've had
the opportunity to train 6-7 wolves or wolf-dog hybrids.  There are many
differences between dogs and their wild cousins but the most noticable is the
wolf's fear of anything new in their environment.  For example, if you let a
dog spend some time in a room, then remove him and while he's gone place a
cardboard box in the center of the room; most dogs will immediately go over
to the box and check it out.  A wolf or wolf hybrid placed in the same
situation will almost always freak out and try to escape the situation, even
if he was comfortable in the room before the box was placed there.  It seems
that we've bred a lot of the natual fear of the unknown out of our canine
friends.  Humans still retain it.  Psi represents the unknown and so, we have
an inherent fear of it.  That's my thinking on this.  It's just something we
have to desensitize ourselves to in order to get over it.
Best Regards,
Don

	
#1153
 	
Date: Thu Nov 7, ?00? 1?:00 pm
Subject: Re: Fear of Psi - Thoughts 	nitahickok

  	  	

Hello PJ
    Most people who keep their talents from childhood are the ones who aren't
afraid. I know my parents thought I was a strange child. They would wake up
because I was laughing and come into the bedroom I was in. They would look
and I would be throwing a ball at something that returned it back to me from
the middle of the room. It was when my Mom started in baptizing me. I have
been baptized 5 times because of her being afraid.
    Colored patterns, vibratory notes, melodies are the signature also of
gateways and any anomalies. I never was frightened of them so I never lost
the abilities to see a lot of wonders in the world.
    Nita

Whenever you hear that someone else has been successful, rejoice. Always
practice rejoicing for others-whether they are your friend or enemy. If you
cannot practice rejoicing, no matter how long you live, you will not be
happy.

Lama Zopa Rinpoche, "Transforming Problems into Happiness".

	
#118?
 	From: Karl Boyken #1185
 	From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Fri Nov 8, ?00? 6:31 pm
Subject: Re: Fear of Psi - Thoughts 	maliolana

  	  	

Aloha PJ,

My youngest began to have nightmares...around 5-6...and I tried to teach
him that he could control them and turn into an even bigger monster...and
scare them away...

I tried to convince him the real monsters were human and alive...

That he could do anything he wished...in his dreams...including
fly...Well this helped a bit (he was real young? ) but actually putting the
dream catcher over his bedroom window did the trick...His nightmares went
away...

Small children aren't ready for  much theory at so vulnerable an
age...and intrepret our words ...not necessarily as we wish...I guess the
dream catcher was more tangible to him...It worked!...I believe he
interpreted it as having a control mechanism greater than he...Cause they
know they are small...

I think materially tangible objects are easier to identify with for
them...
since so much of life ...that is readily perceived by most...is outside
their control...not even counting the stuff outside everyones control...

This boy was very adventurous/mischevious in beta......

Love & Light & Laughter
Mali'o...aka...Dawna

	
#1??8
 	From: Rocheleh  PJ Gaenir wrote:
> Well that suddenly got me thinking.  Rykah had pointed at this
> unusual light pattern on the ceiling as being 'the place' where
> something could 'come through'.  Which is a lot like what Bill and
> Ken were talking about; something out of the ordinary, especially
> something that our mind doesn't have a pre-existing pattern for,
> being a sort of 'doorway'.

Something like this happens to me on occasion; and has been happening since
early childhood. Sometimes, I'd get the feeling that if I wanted to, I could
just go ahead in a particular direction and leave this world. I haven't done it
yet  A sort of doorway, but the other way around - me going out, not
something in. This'd occur more frequently around numinous places, places with
an aura of sanctity or G-d-knows-what; but usually in different places and at
different times. They can be grouped into two large groups, as I'm thinking back
on everything filed under this label in my mind...

One is when it's hot, exceedingly hot and clear in the summer, so much that the
air almost shimmers (doesn't happen a lot, LOL? ) - something like this is also
described in Michael Ende's "Momo". (I have lots of literary allusions today,
you'll no doubt see.? ) The other's when it's late at night, maybe after a bit of
rain, in the city. A river helps, too. Rainfall on concrete. (Wait, that's 5
syllables! Yes, I'll post my own haiku... hopefully before the deadline, ouch!? )

By the way, a very interesting take on "leaving this reality" is in the novel
"Sputnik Sweetheart" by Haruki Murakami. I read it a month ago and loved it, the
way the sentences are phrased, all. I might even type some parts up and send
them, the way he reflects on reality is soo very nice. But then, I'm a lazy sort
of person, so go ahead and read it if you really want to see it for yourself...
(I've read an other book of his and that seemed to be full of ASC stuff, but it
was a very long time ago, and I wasn't interested in psi back then, so it looks
like I'll have to re-read it.? )

(I've been thinking of assembling a psi-related fiction database - explicitly
psi-related plus maybe others like the books mentioned above -, with reviews,
bells and whistles, but I'm too lazy to do that. Well, if anybody makes
something of that sort, I could write short reviews, recommend books etc. I'm
an SF freak.? )

(This post is turning be more of literature than of experience...? )

> nita wrote:
> Most people who keep their talents from childhood are the ones who aren't
> afraid.

I guess I'm the exception, then... I've been afraid all the time. Afraid?
Frightened like hell! Fear of psi is my biggest issue. But then again, I've
always been *insatiably* curious, and that's enough for a different outcome,
seems like.

> Bill Pendragon wrote:
> psychic tools that she feels will protect her.  Denial
> is one such tool. But it does not always work
> especially if the child is a sensitive.

[nods in agreement]
This is what I tried when I was younger (before the age of 15? ) and it went
fine... but only up to a certain point, then my whole argumentation collapsed on
me. Thank G-d I had the willingness to accept it as it was and not give my
cheap-ass defense mechanisms another try  But it was hard.

Speaking of this, yes, I'll reply to your question about psi missing... I've
started composing a reply immediately, but it ended up convoluted and full of
non-related divergent whichever, the way my writing gets when I'm sleepy and
can't organize my thoughts (like right now, ouch!? ). I have a deadline this week,
but I'll try to finish the message tomorrow.

> Karl Boyken wrote:
> More and more, I feel that fear is directly related to shadow.
> Probably that's obvious, but I'm appreciating it in a more
> direct way.  The more I work with shadow, the more I see that
> my fears involve shadow stuff.  The more comfortable I become
> exploring shadow and opening to it, the less fearful I am.
(...etcetc? )

This is very Jungian, deliberately so? (Not that it's a problem - to the
contrary! I'm just curious.? )

> PJ wrote somewhere:
> and so forth.  I've seen pictures that delighted me and pictures that
> actually made me GASP out loud with shock, but they were all based on
> predictably known stuff... just done in their unique way.

Like Rene Magritte, everything painted realistically and it's still as out of
this world as it gets  (Maybe that's why his stuff makes it to the covers of
psychology-related books quite often.? )

Little Sleepy Rachel (Yup, and I've gotten hold of the Gateway Experience
material, Wave I - plus a few additional ones here and there, but this wave is
the only complete one I have. Luckily, because that means I can get to it right
away. I'll probably give them a try this week, and I'll let you know how it
went. I hope my unconscious speaks English... ;? ) ? )

	
#1?31
 	From: Karl Boyken  This is very Jungian, deliberately so? (Not that it's a problem - to the
  > contrary! I'm just curious.? )

	
#1?3?
 	From: Ken Burns 
Date: Tue Nov 1?, ?00? 3:09 am
Subject: Re: Fear of Psi - Thoughts 	mesundo

  	  	

Hi Rachel,

>  Sometimes, I'd get the feeling that if I wanted to, I could
> just go ahead in a particular direction and leave this world. I
> haven't done it
> yet  A sort of doorway, but the other way around - me going out,
> not
> something in. This'd occur more frequently around numinous places,
> places with
> an aura of sanctity or G-d-knows-what; but usually in different places
> and at
> different times

I've also had that " feeling" of being able to leave this world a few
times. The first time, I was in the" sanctity" of my living room,
watching tv . lol

I noticed a glitter of some sort, in a corner of the room and I started
to focus on it. It started getting larger and larger until it filled up
half of the room.

I had this overwhelming feeling, that if I allowed this shimmering,
metallic -looking, liquid energy (that's the best way that I can
describe it? ) fill the room, that I would no longer be in this reality.
It felt like an energy version of the grim reaper coming ! I then
shifted my focus on something else. It and the "feeling" went away.

Best Regards,

Ken

	
#1?73
 	From: Rocheleh  Hi, Little Sleepy Rachel.

No, wait, I'm not sleepy all the time! (Though I *am* little.? ) :? ) Right now I
am... er... hungry?  Oy, I'm so hungry!

> I've been doing dream work for a long time, and so although I've never
> read any Jung, I've worked with Jungian dream workers, and some of
> that inevitably rubbed off on me.  The concept of shadow has been very
> productive for me.

I wonder what to recommend from him - reading Jung and thinking about it has
been beneficial for me. He has concepts that I had before reading it, but he
knows more about them :? ) (He knows more about my concepts than I do... that
sounds weird, but that might just be what psychology is about.? ) My problem with
recommendations is that I read everything I could find from him in succession,
and I don't really know what was where... I should sort it out by next semester
- or I'm in trouble for the exam!

Ken Burns wrote:

> I've also had that " feeling" of being able to leave this world a few
> times. The first time, I was in the" sanctity" of my living room,
> watching tv . lol

LOL! I didn't mean to sound that esoteric :? )

But seriously, a decent living room *should* have some sanctity to the
inhabitants - not in the sense of being like a church, but of being "just all
right". Being close to how it should be, in the best of all possible worlds :? )
This sounds a bit like feng shui, and I agree with it on that there are bad and
good environments beyond the obvious, but I don't agree on the particular
details... As much as I know about feng shui, it more or less says the easiest
for me would be bulldozing my flat away, it's so hopelessly built, LOL! But to
me, it seems rather nice... Oh well.

> I had this overwhelming feeling, that if I allowed this shimmering,
> metallic -looking, liquid energy (that's the best way that I can
> describe it? ) fill the room, that I would no longer be in this reality.
> It felt like an energy version of the grim reaper coming ! I then
> shifted my focus on something else. It and the "feeling" went away.

To me it never felt like dying (if that's what you meant by referring to the
grim reaper? ), it was always an unusually positive and attractive (in the sense
that I felt drawn to it? ) sort of thing.

And the long overdue reply to Bill:

> Very intersting post, and I want to know as much as
> possible about psi missing. The thing I missed was HOW
> exactly you changed from psi missing to psi
> hitting???Could you explain it one more time. Was it
> using Gospsi..or something else in your
> approach????..and whats the website for Gotpsi?

The easy part of this is the website URL: http://www.gotpsi.org/

The bit harder part is the psi missing thing. I wrote and re-wrote this reply a
couple times, especially since for most of the time that I can write e-mails is
late into the night, so I'm not too coherent.

To me, fear of psi has always been the biggest issue in RV, or just general ESP,
or (especially!? ) PK... It must've been because I didn't become interested in
psi, it fell on my head and crushed me, sort of, around age 15. I guess I might
be what they call a natural sensitive, but I'm also of the "hard-science" type,
and therefore, my psychological defense mechanisms did a great job at hiding psi
from me. But as time passed, very weird things happened, and, consequently, I
could no longer uphold the non-existence of psi if I wanted to stay at my
science model... Well, that's not precise, I've always thought that psi might
just exist, why not - quantum mechanics can get even weirder than that, so it's
all right. (LOL! Hard to believe I said that :? ) ? ) I didn't care much beyond I
care for other branches of science (or what seems like science to me :? ) ? ). But!
I was 99% certain that even if psi really existed, it would not happen to me, of
all persons. I thought I just wasn't the type, I imagined people who had
something to do with psi all looked and behaved like the turn-of-the century
cliche hypnotist :? )? )? )

So, when I could no longer deny it was happening to me, my world turned upside
down. It wasn't just the psychological implications of the whole thing, but the
social as well (as if the former weren't bad enough? ). Suddenly my best friends
thought I was a freak, rumors about me abounded, my family was scared to hell
etc. (My grandma seemed to know what this was, so it might run in the family,
but I was never let in on that. But it made her more frightened, not more
helpful. ? ) Even before I myself knew what was happening, they've
already decided. After a particularly nasty incident on (of all subjects? )
physics class, I developed what I guess was a neat case of post-traumatic stress
disorder. Thanks to this, I almost dropped out of school, where I was one of the
best students before. If not for the behind-the-scenes support of one of our
teachers who (as he told me on graduation day? ) knew what was going on with me, I
surely would have. (I still don't understand why he never discussed this with me
before... I think it would've been of great help. He must have his own reasons,
maybe one day I'll know.? ) Baruch Hashem I could make my teachers' assumptions
that this rapid descent in my grades was only temporary true in the end.



"Intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that
symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event" and "physiological
reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble
an aspect of the traumatic event".
For a very long time, even the simplest mention of telepathy or, what was even
worse, psychokinesis, would produce _extreme_ arousal reactions in me. My
stomach tied in knots, sweating, whatever you have. A desire to flee. Where, and
how to flee when it's in myself, I didn't have an idea about.

After a time, when I realized psi just ain't gonna vanish from my little reality
and I might just as well get used to it, I figured I should practice and get
some skill, better control, and that would mean less trouble in everyday life.
But how can you practice when you freak out on the slightest thought of it? So I
tried to train myself out of fear, a process of systematic desensitization. In
my thoughts, I practiced referring to myself as "a telepath" - even though my
psi manifested more in PK, I found this word to be sooo nice so I kept it. Later
on, I became a Babylon 5 addict :? ), so that was even easier that way.

(PJ, you brought this up recently - I just can't find the exact message - the
modification to self to suit especially the needs of RV. This is akin to it, I
guess.? )

Then, I tried smallish experiments, some even set up by me with my not-so-133t
programming skills... Some of the RNG type, and some weirder ones. But as I
practised, the frequency of strange things turned up around me - voila,
retraumatization instead of desensitization. (Not "around when" I practised -
"exactly while" I practised, and lots of times to the hardware I practised on
itself. Do you collect blown-up stuff?? ) Just what I needed :? ) With the help of a
newly-found friend, a practitioner of ceremonial magick, I worked on control
issues, I became a lot more stable psychologically (I could now pay attention to
my grades, and not just that, but the niceties of life beyond Nine Inch Nails.? )
but I still didn't dare try anything serious before I moved to my own little
flat this September.

Okay, this was when I thought "Come on, Rachel, things might happen, but there
aren't anybody to scream about it, you're all by yourself, it should be more or
less all right." I thought it was time to crank up desensitisation a few levels,
and go straight to experimentation - something I stopped not just because the
strange things and...uh...lack of funds, but because I thought I wouldn't be
able to handle my physiological reactions. I read the little literature I could
find in the town library on PTSD before moving, and decided heck, I'm not going
to die, or go crazy, or whatever, so I should do it. Practice, and not stop,
however worse I feel both mentally and physically. This is what I didn't detail
in my previous post, right?

Well, I felt like I was going to go crazy AND die at the same time :? ), but I
kept on saying to myself that that was just drama, and people don't die of this
stuff according to available literature. (Even if I believed otherwise in my
guts.? ) I had a sort of catharsis after some time... (Time I spent in the lowest
circles of Hell, subjectively - this is what I referred to in that post of mine? )
Yes, I got better. I still have resistance, too much of it, but it doesn't
inhibit every darn thing I'm trying to do. The worst part is, things still blow
up, and this time I'm about as strapped of cash as I can get... (Buy me useful
presents for Chanukah, will you, folks? ;? ) ? ) But even that's not as bad as
before, and it should be all right with practice. The problem is, I can't decide
what to practise - using psi, or blowing up stuff with it? This is a serious
problem, LOL! Quit laughing! (Heck, even I laugh, it sounds so shtewpid.? ) I
think what I'd need right now is something as structured as RV, but for PK, not
ESP. But... Edwin May says PK doesn't even exist. Argh! He's soo reputable I
feel stupid about actually "believing" in it. Will someone puh-leeeze reassure
me?!

Like in _Foucault's Pendulum_: the psychiatrist tells the protagonist after he
tells him his long story: "Sir, you're indeed nuts."

So, Bill, I hope I answered your question now, this is what it was "in my
approach". Feel free to ask more, though, I'm pretty sure I left many things
unexplained - I didn't want to bore you folks with a complete three-volume
autobiography, LOL!

Rachel (<- Nuts. And hungry!!? )

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#1?81
 	From: Ken Burns 
Date: Thu Nov 14, ?00? ?:3? pm
Subject: Re: Fear of Psi - Thoughts 	mesundo

  	  	

> > It felt like an energy version of the grim reaper coming !

> To me it never felt like dying (if that's
> what you meant by referring to the
> grim reaper? ), it was always an unusually
> positive and attractive (in the sense
> that I felt drawn to it? ) sort of thing.

Hi Rachel,

I meant grim reaper in the sense of being 'taken' away somewhere. I had
the feeling and thoughts that this would happen if I 'allowed' the
energy to merge with me. I did feel drawn to it, but really didn't care
to find out where it was going to take me. lol

Ken