pjrv : Messages : 2480-2511 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/2480?)
2006/07/01 00:01:26

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#2480
 	From: "Linda & John Garvey" 
Date: Sat Mar 8, 2003 11:10 am
Subject: Re: Re: Ingo swann on TO 	linda_g7us
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>Eva wrote:
>Then again, maybe if you believe it exists, that makes it exist and
>if you don't believe it exists then it doesn't.  Or maybe it still
>does but you just don't notice cuz you aren't looking for it.  Or
>maybe if you look for it, that makes it exist. . . .

Not believing something dangerous exists doesn't seem to make one safe from
harm, IMO.  In the physical world, many people get diseases before those
diseases are even known about.  People have been overcome by toxic fumes
without having a clue that they are present (this is why many utility
companies put a noxious odor in natural gas).  In the psychological realm,
people can be tricked by skilled but unethical psychologists, sales people,
con artists, even  "friends" with ulterior motives and other slime who seem
to know instinctively how to manipulate each individual.  These predators
have been known to brag that the easiest person to trick is a person who
doesn't believe that he or she can be tricked.  I suspect that the same
dynamics might apply in the world of psi (in any form). Of course, we each
have our own attitudes, feelings and instincts about this, and what works
for one might not work for another, as far as
vulnerability/danger/protection.   Of course, I don't believe we should be
"paranoid", but I do feel that people need to be reasonably wary and protect
ourselves in most endeavors, perhaps especially in
psi-related/metaphysical/spiritual activities, where all the "answers" seem
to be far from being anywhere near "in."

Linda G

"The distinction between past, present and future
is only an illusion, even if a stubborn one."

-- Albert Einstein --


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Moderator's note: It depends on what level of belief we're talking about here. 
Conscious belief -- sure.  Every day is a surprise.  But there are core
psychological structures which do seem to relate to the events that people bring
into their lives.  In the quantum philosophy, it gets to the point of Sethian
constructs of creating one's own reality.  In which case, if one TRULY -- at a
core level -- does not choose to be gassed, diseased, or convinced to buy that
new laundry detergent, they will not be.

The real issue is that most people are oblivious to even their semi-conscious
motivations and belief systems, and even the most obvious cause-effect series in
their lives; let alone the deeper models and mental maps that they may create
their reality with. Obviously that is only one philosophy -- Don and I have a
good time arguing about this one :-) -- but how one interprets, for example,
"safety", depends on what kind of philosophy you hold about the very experience
of reality.

If you believe we are responsible for our own experience, safety from surprises
and need for protection is not a big issue; the protection would be from
oneself, first.  If you don't believe we are responsible at a core level for the
creation of our reality experience, then definitely, all precautions must be
taken to protect us from what amounts to almost infinite threats (fire, flood,
burglary, gas, C02, etc. etc.). -- PJ

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#2502
 	From: "Linda & John Garvey" 
Date: Sat Mar 8, 2003 4:52 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ingo swann on TO 	linda_g7us
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>Moderator's note: It depends on what level of belief we're talking about
>here.  Conscious belief -- sure.  Every day is a surprise.  But there are
>core psychological structures which do seem to relate to the events that
>people bring into their lives.  In the quantum philosophy, it gets to the
>point of Sethian constructs of creating one's own reality.  In which case,
>if one TRULY -- at a core level -- does not choose to be gassed, diseased,
>or convinced to buy that new laundry detergent, they will not be.

To me, one of the issues is that many of us, though we have beliefs on the
subject, do not feel that we know for certain just how much of our reality
we create or control.  Probably, for some, more than they think; for others,
possibly less.  Also, there are other people out there creating their own
reality, some of which could involve us.  Some are wonderful people; others
not-so-nice.   Each of us has to decide what we feel we need to protect
ourselves from, how, and to what extent -- individually, by trusting our OWN
instincts and intuition, rather than someone else's opinion.   This makes
sense to me.

And I don't mind saying, BTW, that I am glad that the gas company apparently
is NOT a subscriber to any of this -- they put the noxious odor in the
natural gas, and have saved many lives, IMO, by doing this.   Sometimes,
there' s nothing wrong with being "practical."   ;)

Linda G

"The distinction between past, present and future
is only an illusion, even if a stubborn one."
-- Albert Einstein --

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#2511
 	From: greenmn900...
Date: Sat Mar 8, 2003 3:31 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Ingo swann on TO 	greenmn900...
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PJ,

> You wrote:
> "Obviously that is only one philosophy -- Don and I have a good time arguing
> about this one :-) -- but how one interprets, for example, "safety", depends
> on what kind of philosophy you hold about the very experience of reality."

I just thought I should mention that you've pretty much convinced me, PJ.
These days I find more evidence for your perspective than for my old one, lol.
Warm Regards,
Don

-----------------------
Moderator's note: Dang. It's worrisome when a lot of people agree with me.  You
know what Mark Twain used to say -- "When you find yourself siding with the
majority, it is time to reform."  ;-)  PJ