pjrv : Messages : 1732-1738 of 4038
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#1732
 	From: Karl Boyken 
Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:01 am
Subject: PK in dreams 	kboyken

  	  	

I sometimes have dreams in which I can move things
around mentally.  I had one last night.  It seemed
so real and vivid that I didn't even notice I was
dreaming, unfortunately.  It was so easy to move
things, including myself.  I was excited because
I'd found the key to doing PK effortlessly.  It
was a matter of relaxing deeply, letting go, and
sinking into some special kind of altered state.

And then I woke up.

I wonder why people have PK dreams.  Anyone care
to speculate?

--
Karl Boyken
kboyken...t
http://soli.inav.net/~kboyken/

We dance 'round in a ring and suppose,
while the Secret sits in the middle and knows.
    --Robert Frost

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#1734
 	From: "PJ Gaenir " 
Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:25 am
Subject: Re: PK in dreams 	dennanm

  	  	

> Karl wrote
> I sometimes have dreams in which I can move things
> around mentally.

When I was 18 (and had lucid dreamed and OBEd all my life), I got
vaguely interested in TK.  Not a big deal, just thought it was a
curious concept and rather fit into some offbeat stuff that I 'wasn't
sure about' but suspected might relate in my life.

One night, as I was falling asleep, I left my body, and was sitting
there on the edge of my bed (er, so to speak) while my body was lying
there on its back in bed.  I was looking at my dresser.

I was thinking of an experience I'd had recently, where, after
deciding that my entire view on life was summed up in the lifting of
one eyebrow, I really wanted to learn to do it.  I couldn't do it in
the mirror, but in a dream, I had done it.  And I had clearly FELT
it, felt the muscle that did it, and realized that the muscle-place
I'd expected wasn't exactly the area that did the work.  I have the
dubious talent of wiggling my ears, which not everybody can do, and I
always wondered why when we all have the same muscles, some of
us "know" where the muscle to lift an eyebrow or wiggle an ear is,
and some of us don't.  I'd found the muscle for the eyebrow in the
dream.  (Note: but still couldn't do it in waking life.)

So as I was sitting there musing on this, it occurred to me suddenly
that perhaps TK was like some kind of muscle.  That some people knew
where it was and some people didn't.  I knew I could move stuff
around in dreams, and had even had a couple where I asked someone in
the dream to 'teach' me TK and they did, and it was easy in the
dream, but of course impossible on awakening.

But as I looked at my dresser I thought, well out of body isn't
exactly the same thing as a dream, though.  Like right now, I
am "right next to" the reality that my body lives in.  Maybe a couple
steps left... but close enough my room looks the same and I can see
my body lying here (I didn't look closely - always freaked me).

So I said to myself, "Let me FEEL the 'muscle' used for TK -- and I
mean in the REAL WORLD, not just in dreams."  And I looked closely at
my dresser and focused on an object on it and lifted it.  And I could
*feel* it almost as physically as I had felt the muscle that lifted
my eyebrow.  I started getting excited, thinking, oh man, I've done
it!  I've found it!  I moved a few other things.  And I knew that *if
I could do this while conscious and IN my body, I could do TK.*  I
knew that it was just DOing and feeling that 'muscle' (sic) MOVE
stuff.  I was so excited!

I said to myself, ok.  You MUST wake your body up right now while you
have it in your head, and DO it - really quick, first thing.  If you
just do this OBE and wait until I eventually end up back in body or
drift off to something else and fall 'asleep' or whatever, I'll have
forgotten it -- like the eyebrow muscle -- I need to do it NOW.

So I turned and DIVED back into my body.  It WOULD NOT WAKE UP.  I
pounded on it from the inside.  I yelled and screamed at it.  I
eventually was SO frustrated I started crying at the unfairness of
this damned stupidly-dead-lump of flesh that was the only thing
standing in my way from "bringing this into my reality" with me.  I
fought and yelled and pounded and cried from the inside of my inert
body until I was totally exhausted.

Finally I told myself in despair, "Well... just THINK of it.  Over
and over and over and over.  We'll just THINK of it repeatedly enough
as we fall asleep [I was exhausted and sleepy by then] that when I
wake up, it's the FIRST THING I will think of."

When I woke up, the first thing I thought of was TK all right.

Had no memory of 'where' that muscle was, or how it felt, or how to
do it.

I was genuinely depressed for a week about it.  Didn't happen to have
any conscious OBEs in that time, and decided to read a book about
them so maybe I could just do it whenever I wanted.

After reading the book, 90% of my conscious OBEing vanished.  I don't
know if it was putting it in my left brain or what.  To me the whole
book seemed to spend so much effort reassuring the readers that it
was possible -- which I'd never doubted, that's obvious -- that it
had like a reverse psychology effect on me.  And there was stuff
like, I think it said if you slept on your right side, it was less
likely? -- in my whole life I'd never been able to sleep on my right
side; suddenly, I could not sleep in any other position!  Clearly
there was a lot of psychological stuff involved.

So, OBEs from that point happened, but were always spontaneous and
were much less common than they had been until that point in my life.

Never found the TK 'muscle' again. ;-)

PJ

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#1738
 	From: "Eva " 
Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 11:24 am
Subject: Re: PK in dreams 	k9caninek9

  	  	

PJ, I wonder if you had basically tasked yourself with something you
could not do.  Basically, you strongly intended to go back into your
body with certain information to go with you.  Maybe going in the
body is a state that precludes certain things or ways of thought.  Or
maybe it just wasn't allowed or right for you at that time.  And so
you couldn't go back it.  It's like when a dog decides to go through
his doggy door while he is carrying a huge meaty leg bone in his
mouth.  Every time he tries to stick his head through the little
door, the bone slams into the side of the house and he can't get it
in.  And he's not smart enough to take it in sideways!  Maybe the
muscle you need out of body is not the same muscle you need in body
either.  Well now there is a lot of maybes!
-E