pjrv : Messages : 3212-3212 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3212?)

 14:49:57

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#3212
 	From: "Elizabeth Hambrook" 
Date: Mon Jun 9, 2003 2:02 am
Subject: RV stories 	ozblueriver
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>Oh I could tell ya some true tales that have kept me >maybe one hop
   >faster than the witch hunters.........

   Weeeeeell, now you've spilt the beans you had better fill us in on what you've
been up to. I'd love to hear your stories.

   Cheers Liz

pjrv : Messages : 3222-3267 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3222?)

 14:52:35

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#3222
 	From: "Elizabeth Hambrook" 
Date: Tue Jun 10, 2003 6:58 am
Subject: Re: Re: RV stories 	ozblueriver
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Aah hahahah!!!!!!!!!!

Poor guys! No matter how you look at it they don't stand a chance. Ah haha!

Now that story's got me thinking........instead of trying to RV lotto numbers,
why not RI them instead. Like think of a set of numbers and make the machine
come up with them........  :)

It's worth a try.

Liz

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#3230
 	From: "stanley01420" 
Date: Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:32 am
Subject: Re: RV stories 	stanley01420
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> Now that story's got me thinking........instead of trying
> to RV lotto numbers, why not RI them instead. Like think of
> a set of numbers and make the machine come up with them........  :)

I don't see how a number can be influenced, Liz.  A number isn't  even a thing,
it's a human construct, a human invention... numbers represent other things,
they are descriptions of something else, they don't exist in and of themselves.

I think only people and events can be influenced.

One can use precognition to see numbers though... depending on how good
the memory is.

Well, that's just my opinion anyway... for what it's worth.

trypper

---------------------
Moderator's note: Maybe all of reality can be influenced, by means of
influencing the self's choice of experience.  In the end, if the Buddhists are
right, that may be all that exists--our perception.

In this case I think Liz meant influence the machine (like micro-PK), not the
numbers themselves. :-)  PJ

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#3234
 	From: "stanley01420" 
Date: Mon Jun 16, 2003 7:20 am
Subject: Re: RV stories 	stanley01420
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> In this case I think Liz meant influence
> the machine (like micro-PK), not the
> numbers themselves. :-)  PJ

You'd have to be a pretty darn good viewer, PJ and a highly skilled telekinetic
to be able to watch each little number flash by in a machine and then
influence the machine how ever many times in a row that the numbers you
want show up.  Those who do PK can get a machine to react, but it's usually a
single effect.   I've heard of submarines who'se torpedo equipment has been
influenced but the viewer wasn't trying to keep track of numbers, count
numbers passing by and the rest of it..

But hey, ... what do I know....  go for it.

----------------------------
Moderator's note: Well Mary, influence isn't actually RV anyway.  I agree that
micro-PK has yet to be proven let alone demonstrated in more than one (usually
spontaneous) experience.  I was only noting that she was talking about
influencing machines, not influencing 'numbers' as a 'thing'. -- PJ

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#3248
 	From: "stanley01420" 
Date: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:50 pm
Subject: Re: RV stories 	stanley01420
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> pj wrote:
> influence isn't actually RV anyway.  I agree that
> micro-PK has yet to be proven let alone demonstrated
> in more than one (usually spontaneous) experience.

I know it's not RV, it's RI.   I personally feel that micro-pk does exist and
has
been proven to be reliable, but that is only my own personal opinion and I
have no scientific reference for it.

trypper

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#3255
 	From: Karl Boyken 
Date: Thu Jun 19, 2003 8:53 am
Subject: Re: Re: RV stories 	kboyken
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Right, I thought Jahn and Dunne at Princeton have pretty well proven micro-PK.

http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/

Karl

-----------------
Moderator's note: Well alas, the most 'exciting' discovery of RNG that I'd heard
about was the alleged 9/11 peak, but other parapsychologists demonstrated that
basically they'd done the analysis wrong and it wasn't really an artifact after
all.  PEARs website has that paper... somewhere. -- PJ

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#3267
 	From: Bill Pendragon 
Date: Fri Jun 20, 2003 4:33 pm
Subject: Re: Re: RNG data. 	docsavagebill
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Hi PJ,

Well its actually rather confused. Spottiswood and May
( I think) attacked Radins analysis, but Radin
published two explanations that he thought justified
the data.. the argument was of a high powered
statistical nature and beyond my depth in that area.

Bill

> alleged 9/11 peak, but other parapsychologists
> demonstrated that basically they'd done the analysis
> wrong and it wasn't really an artifact after all.

----------------------------
Moderator's note: Well, I suspect that Dr. Utts is on the CSL oversight
committee, so I assumed she at least mildly reviewed May's paper, and she kicks
butt on stats, that's her field and forte.  She might not have reviewed it
though, that might be inaccurate, I just sort of assumed, I'll have to ask her. 
Through various grapevines I've heard of several difficulties in psi science
along these lines, so I'm coming to take things with a grain of salt. In
parapsych like any other science, replication is critical I guess.  PJ

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#3231
 	From: "Linda & John Garvey" 
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2003 11:53 am
Subject: Re: Re: RV stories 	linda_g7us
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-- Or if a person could influence numbers, in general, could they be
manipulating the energy that causes the numbers to appear (telekinetally, if
produced by a machine or computer (as in the lotteries); RI if a person is
choosing numbers (as in, say, an office pool)...)?

Maybe choosing our experience (say, to win some $$ in a lottery), can start
the ball rolling to manipulate energy to that effect? (And not tell anybody
about our choice, since they could choose a reality where we DON'T win $$ in
a lottery, and it could affect our results?)

As far as our perceptions, in the case of lottery numbers, there does seem
to be some "objectivity" as to what the numbers are once they are chosen
(rather than our individual perceptions) -- I haven't heard about anybody
disagreeing as to what the numbers are, once they're chosen (at least not in
California Lotto ;) )?

Well, it's Sunday morning, and I'm just all full of questions, eh?  LOLOL

Linda G

"The distinction between past, present and future
is only an illusion, even if a stubborn one."
-- Albert Einstein --

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#3233
 	From: "Elizabeth Hambrook" 
Date: Mon Jun 16, 2003 6:58 am
Subject: Re: Re: RV stories 	ozblueriver
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Hi,

I've written down below the last post......

> I don't see how a number can be influenced, Liz.
> A number isn't  even a thing,
> it's a human construct, a human invention... numbers
> represent other things,
> they are descriptions of something else, they
> don't exist in and of themselves.
> I think only people and events can be influenced.
> One can use precognition to see numbers though... depending on how good
> the memory is.
> Well, that's just my opinion anyway... for what it's worth.
> trypper

> Moderator's note: Maybe all of reality can be influenced,
> by means of influencing the self's choice of experience.
> In the end, if the Buddhists are right, that may be all
> that exists--our perception.
> In this case I think Liz meant influence the machine (like
> micro-PK), not the numbers themselves. :-)  PJ

   PJ, you were right the first time. LOL

   I have come to know that, (at least in my life), that all of life can be
influenced. I believe it's all an illusion and I have influenced all sorts of
things.

   To me, it's not a matter of influencing the machine or the balls or even the
person involved in running the show. It's just changing life by changing me.

   But that's how my life is. It's not necessarily the same for others. We all
have different beliefs, thank god. That in itself keeps us one step away from
being clones. 

   If someone else was to believe differently, then perhaps their life would
reflect those beliefs not mine.

   To me the terms PK and RI are essentially the same thing but I can see the
need would arise to use them for different reasons.

   Cheers Liz

------------------------
Moderator's note: I forgot to add, in response to Mary, that I actually think
numbers are fundamental energetic constructs that are the building blocks of our
universe as we know it.  A highly... condensed identity, so to speak.  At least
that was my experience in merging with one once.  So I don't consider them
'unreal' or only 'representations'; I consider them if anything more
fundamentally real-if such a thing is even possible!-than most anything else.
Still I agree that we really only influence ourselves.  IMO. :-)  PJ

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#3247
 	From: "stanley01420" 
Date: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:47 pm
Subject: Re: RV stories 	stanley01420
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> pj wrote:
> I actually think numbers are fundamental energetic
> constructs that are the building blocks of
> our universe as we know it.  [snip]
> Still I agree that we really only influence ourselves.

So... if we know/want  an individual in another country to do a specific thing
on
a specific day and it happens....  and nothing changes for us... we influenced
ourself?  How?   I don't get it.

I guess you've got me confused there, PJ.

trypper

-----------------------
Moderator's note: Read some of the Seth books by Jane Roberts.  The entire
philosophy of 'creating your own reality' is based on what amounts to a
multiverse concept, where one chooses 'which infinite aspect of experience' they
wish to experience--so in essence, influences their OWN choice of experience
from an infinite (or nearly) set of options, as opposed to changing anything for
anybody else or anything 'objectively' (there is no objective reality in this
concept, only--like time--the appearance of such).

In this model, 'everything that can happen, does happen' -- and we are in most
of those probabilities (simultaneously) -- we choose what we pay attention to,
at the deepest levels, basically.  It's the only theory that's fit all my weird
experiences in without anything made impossible by it, and the more I focus on
the concepts the more true they seem (which itself, even if an artifact, nearly
confirms the theory :-)) so I feel comfortable with it. I realize it's a bit far
out to many folks though! PJ

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#3237
 	From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:51 pm
Subject: Re: Re: RV stories 	maliolana
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Aloha guys,

I found this url on another psi site...it seems to have some relevance to
this thread...
Russel Targ...
http://www.noetic.org/Ions/publications/review_archives/30/issue30_26.htm
l

Love & Light & Laughter
Mali'o...aka...Dawna

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick
society."
   -- Krishnamurti

-----------------------
Moderator's note: For those of you who haven't seen it, Russell also has his own
website at http://www.espresearch.com -- PJ

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#3238
 	From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Tue Jun 17, 2003 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: Re: RV stories 	maliolana
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Aloha PJ,

> I actually think numbers are fundamental energetic constructs
> that are the building blocks of our universe as we know it.
> A highly... condensed identity, so to speak.  At least that was
> my experience in merging with one once.  So
> I don't consider them 'unreal' or only 'representations';
> I consider them if anything more fundamentally real-if such a
> thing is even possible!-than most anything else. Still I agree
> that we really only influence ourselves.  IMO. :-)  PJ{

Are you literally speaking of the numbers themselves...as having
substance...
or the values they represent?...

If literal...then which language's number sets...are the most
energetic/magical?...I read somewhere that the chinese language (Mandarin
in particular)...as well as ancient Hebrew (Kabbala)...Have a
magical/energy quality in their very configuration...but English?

Love & Light & Laughter
Mali'o...aka...Dawna

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick
society."
   -- Krishnamurti

---------------------------
Moderator's note: What we call numbers are OUR representation. But numbers at a
deeper level, beyond how we conceptualize them and make shapes to use them for
counting, are to me powerful in the way that the major elements (like say, fire)
are.  -- PJ

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#3244
 	From: "Elizabeth Hambrook" 
Date: Wed Jun 18, 2003 6:47 am
Subject: Re: Re: RV stories 	ozblueriver
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> PJ wrote
> I was only noting that she was talking about
> influencing machines, not influencing 'numbers'
> as a 'thing'.

Just to clear things up......I wasn't talking about trying to influence the
machine. That's sound like too much hard work to me. 

What I had in mind was trying to influencing the final outcome.... me winning.
If all life is a kind of reflection of who we are, as in Plato's Cave, then it's
really ME I'm trying to influence to reflect that outcome.

Cheers Liz

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#3250
 	From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Wed Jun 18, 2003 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: Re: RV stories 	maliolana
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Aloha PJ,

> What we call numbers are OUR representation. But
numbers at a deeper level, beyond how we conceptualize
> them and make shapes to use them for counting, are
> to me powerful in the way that the major elements
> (like say, fire) are.

I was pretty sure that is what you were saying...I sorta agreed with both
Tryppers take on it...and Glyns and Liz's...as well as yours...hahah

I resonate ... with you on the 'magical'/mystical (creational even)
...properties of the value (elemental nature/perhaps foundational even)
that 'numbers' represent...and with Trypper that the actual numbers
themselves (we create/ see)  ...They are human constructs... created in
the attempt
to physically represent the super/non physical?...

Whereas of course what they represent (value) ...is not a human
construct... but probably universal ...A basic element of the fabric of
our (physical/energy) reality...if not the core fabric itself?...Just
repeating the obvious again!...and searching for words...haha

Love & Light & Laughter
Mali'o...aka...Dawna

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick
society."
   -- Krishnamurti