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Back to the Future ?

Omega

Euphoria = Hitting the Target !! : )
#1
This has been passed to me so I thought I would put it up for any comments

Dick Allgire over at HRVG posted the following
possibly "powerful piece of information"
They are keeping everyone in suspense ;D

PsiSpy


We may just have a photograph sitting in the Library of Congress that has a record of remote viewers from the future, showing up in that photograph, experimenting with time.

Let me bring you dear readers up to speed on what this is all about.
On March 9 this year Glenn Wheaton worked a remote viewing session in front of HRVG class, on camera with a video camera recording the event. Debra and I had selected the target, a person who lived in the 1800’s. Glenn’s session- every bit of it captured on camera- was stunning, more information than most people would ever expect a remote viewer could gather, given nothing more than a blind target ID.

The person selected as the target is not spectacularly famous- not Lincoln, or Robert E. Lee, or Mark Twain, but it is someone history buffs might recognize. He led an interesting life and left a good record of his time on earth. A photo of the person was taken in 1875, and that photo is in the Library of Congress. Copies are available on line.

After he worked the session on camera Glenn was not immediately given feedback. It seems kind of silly to withhold feedback after the viewer has just told you more about your target than you ever knew when you tasked it, but that’s how it worked. We didn’t tell Glenn the name of the subject. He went back and revisited the target person, and found a moment when his portrait photograph was made using 19th century Deguerrotype technology. Such photos are one of a kind.

Glenn’s intent was to send a message to the past. To put a message in some medium that would persist and be evident today. If he were successful it would prove that remote viewers don’t just perceive some inexplicable record or imprint of a past event, they actually displace something of themselves to the actual event across time. If Glenn were successful it would also mean that remote viewers have the ability to generate some type of “affect” (however small) at the target across time. If Glenn could successfully put his message, say in an old photograph, it would show that he traversed time, and affected that moment. Heady stuff.

Glenn flipped a coin- a nickel- to select his message. If the coin came up heads, the message would be: A HEADS W. All upper case. (Glenn wanted to leave his initial, W for Wheaton.) If the coin came up tails, then the message would be: b tails w. All smaller case.

The coin flip turned up heads, so the message would be:
A HEADS W. Glenn published this on the HRVG website.

Glenn went into S-5 Theta Isolation and went to target. When Glenn does this a small part of his awareness remains where he is viewing, in this case in his bedroom at his house in Kalihi. But a greater part of his awareness goes to target. It means Glenn is at the target in a full experiential reality. He feels as if he has a body and is standing there at the target.

He found himself in the 1875 photography studio where the subject was sitting for his photo. Old style photos like this require extremely long exposures. It why people never smiled in Deguerrotypes. They had to sit rigidly, not moving a muscle or expression for many minutes while the light photons were captured on the copper plate. As the photograph was exposed, Glenn (there at the target) placed himself between the subject and the camera and traced the letters H HEADS W. on the subject’s forehead. Glenn is able to revisit targets and replay the scene over and over again. He did this many times, each time etching the message A HEADS W. as the photographic plate was exposed.

When I spoke with Glenn at the conclusion of this exercise he was both exhausted and rattled. He asked if Debra and I could come right over. He said, “I need to resolve this.”

We met at Glenn’s house and gave Glenn feedback. We told him the name of the target, but he already knew. We found the photograph that was taken at the time Glenn visited the target in his sessions. We began examining every centimeter of that image, using computer enhancement to search for possible letters embedded somewhere in the photo.

Glenn is a trained military image analyst. He spotted it first. On the subject’s forehead, what seems to be an anomaly in the emulsion. The process of Deguerrotype leaves tiny faint squiggly lines on the photograph, or least it did on this photograph. Most of the lines are random. On the subject’s forehead they resolve into some letters. You can make out the letters A HEADS W.

The A is very clear. The H is easy to make out. There are three letters EAD after the H, which are not as easy to spot, but you can make them out. The S is very clear and the W is unmistakable. To those of us who have spent hundreds of hours taking notes while Glenn writes on the whiteboard, it even LOOKS like his penmanship, the way he draws block letters.

As we examined the photo further we began to see other anomalies. The subject was wearing glasses. In the reflection we first made out a human figure, the tiny image of a woman. Then later that night we were at home, on our computers examining the photo and talking on the phone. We noticed another face reflected in the spectacles, a man with a beard, and then yet another face. Since we were talking on the phone we used clock terminology to point to the position of the faces. “Look, at 11 o’clock from the corner of his eye, see that face with the creepy eyeball staring right at you?” It gave us goosebumps, or as we say in Hawaii “Chicken Skin.” Faces that weren't there before were appearing in the image, staring back at us.

And always, that small grouping of letters that should not logically be there: A HEADS W.

Now at this point I’m sure you’re going to ask, “Okay, where can we see this photograph?”

We need to ponder this for a bit. We’re going to have some folks we trust examine the photo and ask if they honestly also see the message. In the meantime we want to safeguard the image, if that is possible. The original is in the Library of Congress. We will order a high resolution copy from the Library of Congress. But if a remote viewer can go back in time and alter the photo, maybe remote viewers in the future will go back and put their own mark on the photo, and those marks are already there, because they did it already (like Glenn did) in 1875. This photo may become a popular test or “proving ground” for putting messages in time. So where we are right now, we’re trying to figure all this out, and we’re not going to reveal the photo just yet.

I keep looking at the photo and pondering the scrawl in Glenn’s all caps style: A HEADS W.

I have this question for Glenn, who grasps all of this better than I. Glenn, If future remote viewers go affect that photo, are their messages already evident? Or will they appear after they do their sessions, and then will they have always been there? When you first worked the target, was your message already there? The paradox issues give me a headache.

This is a most interesting project. I believe Glenn did traverse time and did affect the photo. I plan on submitting this as a topic for presentation at the IRVA conference in June. If approved, we’ll bring the photo and it will be revealed at the conference and then made available to the public after that.
 

daz

Remote viewer, author, artist and photographer.
Staff member
#2
sounds interesting - id love to see the photo - spending half my life in photoshop im keen to see its its as clear as i expect.

daz
 

NSA

New Member
#3
Iam abit concerned about the actual protocol (or lack of it) for this
experiment which no one seems to have noticed.

NSA
 

Mycroft

Active Member
#4
This would be an excellent first person nonlocal reality example if enough people can see the letters.

A study in the British Journal of Medicine discusses the results of an experiment in retroactive prayer. Researchers had a computer sort the ten year old hospital records of 5,000 patients with bloodstream infections into random groups. One group was prayed over; one was not. The researchers then checked the records and found that those patients who had been prayed over had experienced shorter hospital stays and fevers, even though the prayers took place ten years after the patients had been discharged.

Please keep us up to date on your experiment. I hope it helps people understand that past, present and future are not immutable.

Mycroft
 

LD

New Member
Staff member
#5
Oh come on guys, lets cut Glen some slack here. After all, my buddy Dave has been experimenting with the same thing lately. Here's a pic of him psychically photobombing this unsuspecting couple from the 1800's. Strait from the Library of Congress...


 

Mycroft

Active Member
#7
PsiSpy said:
But if a remote viewer can go back in time and alter the photo, maybe remote viewers in the future will go back and put their own mark on the photo, and those marks are already there, because they did it already (like Glenn did) in 1875. This photo may become a popular test or “proving ground” for putting messages in time.
One place you can test your theory, of course it only provable to a remote viewer in session is the murder scene of Pope John Paul 1. Many people will pick up on the luminous entities in the room as well as the real players. There were probably no more than three in the room when he died with likely only two actively participating. Many of the prophets of old foretold of his execution, when remote viewed several archetypes can be observed watching.

Makes one wonder if somehow certain events will become off limits?

I'm pretty sure your "proving ground" theory will hold up. For example, in the 1898 novel 'Futility' which was written 14 years before the Titanic set sail, a fictional ship named Titan was described in great detail. The similarities between the real and fictional ships were extraordinary. Each vessel had two masts and three propellers and was heralded as unsinkable -but most chillingly, each had a 3000 passenger capacity and not enough life boats, and both experienced fatal collisions with icebergs in the month of April.

I've read four books by an author who claims he journeys to the future for material for each successful book when he is satisfied he has the material, he writes and publishes only successful books, thereby allowing the future to influence the present.

Your theory would certainly help explain some of the unexplainable of the past, maybe your research will help define what the signatures of a tampered past look like (in this case initials). ;)

Mycroft
 

Liam

True Power resides in a free Mind!
#9
:D

Very interesting indeed. Can he really affect a photo in the past? I don't know?

We would have to see the photo I suppose.

I wonder if any big movies in the past have had RV subltly included in the script?

ALl the best,

Liam
 
#10
Yes, it is a great project and very innovative. Never had an idea like RVing back and 'burn' a message from myself onto a long exposured photo.

But... if you can't take the response, and won't show the evidence (in high resolution), then why make such a "press release"?
 

NSA

New Member
#11
Interesting. I just re-read Dicks recent comments and further explanation on the
protocol used. Now if Glenn did indeed work this COMPLETELY blind and ALONE
then I would be more than happy to see the outcome and results of the experiment.

I think there is a lesson here for anyone engaged in worthwhile experiments and projects
intended for public release. Making extraordinary claims without first outlining
the EXACT protocol used for any RV project and waiting till the project has been
completed can leave those viewiers open to criticism or the odd mickey taking.

If this was released to more scientifically minded folk or the skeptic/debunking community
I can assure you the jokes would be far worse than the ones posted here based on
the initial press release of this most unusual project.

I hope the original photo in the library of congress shows the evidence for this feat.
If it does, and the entire protocol vouched for then the project should be respected
and debated keenly in the RV Community.

NSA
 
#12
This sounds much like retro-PK except this is the first time I've heard about it being accomplished on a macroscopic-scale. Very interesting.

This is a very informative link about retro-PK with online experiments you take part in with data from random number generators. I thought it to be quite relevant to this thread.
http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/
 

LD

New Member
Staff member
#13
Say Marv, if you could pick up some pointers from Glen maybe you could travel back in time and change your jibing to flowery compliments and this entire ridiculous thread would cease to exist - ripped from the fabric of space/time... :D


In all seriousness, I'd like to see the picture as much as everyone else. It's a pretty fantastic claim, but until evidence or repeatability is produced, that's pretty much all it is. That's one of the things that makes remote viewing special, hard evidence and repeatability. Like Marv and Eva, I don't really get the point of the coin flip or the weird message. If one was trying to scrawl a message in the past, why not make it something a little less... random?
 

Marv_Darley

New Member
Staff member
#15
Here is a necessary corollary of Glenn's experiment for you all to think about.

The photograph he claims to have altered (by leaving his cryptic message) is an ORIGINAL in the Library of Congress. Copies of this photograph exist on the internet, and no doubt in various other publications around the world.

Now. If we are to accept Glenn's claims, then prior to his experiment on March 9th, NONE of these images, whether the original or the copies, bore the letters A HEADS W scratched into them. Had we looked, we would not have found. Since Glenn's experiment on March 9th, however, ALL of them do. By altering the photo in the Library of Congress Glenn ultimately caused all printed copies to alter at the same time, including the online image that he and Dick Algire studied to find their feedback.

So we're okay with this, yes? We acknowledge that on March 9th, and due to the mental efforts of Glenn Wheaton, thousands of copies of this picture around the world, whether printed in ink or saved in JPEG or GIF format simultaneously rearranged their pixels/code to accurately reflect the message on the original that until March 9th had not been there before. Seems feasible, yes?

Ok. So how do we then set about proving that this actually happened? True science operates around provable experiments and, as all good viewers know, FEEDBACK. Well, where is the proof here? How can we prove that Glenn actually DID manage this monumental feat?

Unfortunately we can't. We simply have to accept his word. Whether the photograph ALWAYS bore those letters or whether Glenn put them there by sheer force of mind remains forever unprovable. We can't go back in time and check the photo pre-March 19th to see if the letters aren't there. We have no control version of the photograph to check against. Once Glenn decided to travel back through time he ensured that the photograph would ALWAYS have those letters scratched into it.

With no control, with no way of checking the condition of the photograph before Glenn's experiment, without any of this we must simply accept what he says.

- - - - - - -

Anyone seen Star Wars recently? There's a section when a whole load of Stormtroopers burst into the control room where Han, Luke and pals are holding fort. If you look colsely to the top of the screen you will see one of them bang his head on the top of the door frame as he does so. Quite a whack. :-X

I did that. By meditating intensely on March 15th of this year I managed to project a portion of myself back onto the film set and trip that actor so that he forgot to look where he was going and banged his head as a result. Seriously; I entered a state of deep theta for a few hours, concentrated on that moment of filming and caused him to trip. Had you watched the film before March 15th (in a parallel timeline where I DIDN'T pull this stunt) you would have seen him coming through just fine.

Alas, because you and I and all of us exist in the timeline where I DID go back in time and cause the Stormtrooper to bump his head, all you will EVER have seen at that point in the film is the storm-trooper bumping his head. Which I caused. 8)

Over to you guys to prove that I DIDN'T cause this to happen. You can't! You have no way of pulling evidence to the contrary (from the past) prior to my experiment and thus my claim must hold. Likewise you have no way of displaying a pre-altered copy of Glenn's 1875 photograph as evidence that he didn't achieve what he said he did, so we may as well just accept it and move on.

Then again, Glenn has no way of displaying a pre-altered copy of the photograph to prove that he DID.

So there we have it. No way of proving either end of the argument. The end.

Feel free the rest of you to make your own wild and wonderful claims about the various things you have done whilst traveling back through time to alter past events. I'm sure these will make for some great reading, though as any knucklehead will tell you, it sure as hell ain't science.

Marv :)
 
#16
All I can say to this, is.... ho boy...

Of course, someone years from now can change my post to include some sort of JELLO PUDDING POP random phrase proving how weak minded I am. Or something.
 

daz

Remote viewer, author, artist and photographer.
Staff member
#18
Marv,
I had earlier today asked HRVG questions along a similar line - ill let you know if/when I get a reply.

i asked:

Guys, a very interesting project and now I've digested it I have a couple of questions & thoughts if you don't mind.

How blind was the experiment - was the tasker or anyone who knew the target in the vicinity (say 50m) of the experiment? From the descriptions it sounds like the tasker was in the room.

How was the project constructed - if the viewer knew it would be an attempt to leave a message behind for example - wouldn't this be a form of front loading as you'd generally only leave a message on a photo or picture?

The feedback image you are saying you changed - are you saying this is one you got online and not the actual image you say you changed?

If so I guess you're thinking that also all copies of the image have also changed?

As an online copy isn't the target -which iwas the actual image - then to validate this any further only a copy of the image in the library would suffice.
So I guess it all hangs on this?

Also online versions like .jpegs have gone through all kind of compression algorithms which change the image and would not be advisable feedback for a project like this.

Is the text clear or is it interpretational?

Wouldn't this experiment need a control sample - i.e. a copy of the image before the experiment to show a change had taken place. If there is writing then we cant prove a change occurred so yes we would have to also look at other options like:
Glenn affecting the image
coincidence
others...

The faces you see in the image - how do you know they weren't all there before? Again is all this is a downloaded .jpeg or net image which may have been changed form the original intentionally or by computer processes?

interesting concept and experiment - look forward to hearing more.

all the best...

Daz
Edit/Delete Message
ohh and marv - i looked here and couldnt find your name ;)
http://www.nerf-herders-anonymous.net/SWAD.html



daz
 
#19
It is impossible to disagree with Marv's conclusions. But I would like to advance even simpler question: how is it possible to put a mark on actual forehead while a man is sitting there (as opposite of marking a photo)? In another vein, appearance of a clear message might violate a time conjecture or something, while fuzzy might not.
 

Mycroft

Active Member
#20
malexeev said:
It is impossible to disagree with Marv's conclusions. But I would like to advance even simpler question: how is it possible to put a mark on actual forehead while a man is sitting there (as opposite of marking a photo)? In another vein, appearance of a clear message might violate a time conjecture or something, while fuzzy might not.
I thought about that, I think it is pretty much like distant healing. The the mere act of projection of the energy or thought should do the trick. If you aren't studied in distance healing it won't make much sense to you. Consider if you could write something on a mirror in a steamy room through thought projection. This is my take on it anyways. I'm sure there are other as well founded theories.

Mycroft