Beliefs and Believing

polkadotpuhjommies

.... don't be ambiguious with your intent ~
On another thread, Waterway asked a question, those who responded got into it a little deeper, and as always, Waterway scampers off to think of something new to devil us with while I'm still in the 'think tank' working on the puzzle he tossed on the forum. :D

It seems that no matter how we slice and dice the issues of remote viewing, it boils down to a few basics-primarily intent and belief (systems). I, for one, am a huge believer in those 2 ingredients.

While we do our targets, claiming they are fun and interesting and oh wow....really nailed that one, far more is going on than 'having RV fun'. Each and every time we choose to do a target, we are putting our beliefs into play...known ones as well as unknown ones.

We bring along beliefs that are truly ours, learned through self discovery, hard knocks, I just feel it in my bones as well as those that have been 'handed down to us' and not that we 'really' believe, but it's what we've been taught is true. How many of us still function using outdated beliefs...those from childhood that no longer apply? ....those from our parents that we 'had' to abide by in order to maintain harmony?

How often do you clean up your beliefs...REALLY examine what you believe and test it/them up against your present reality as you perceive it today? How many old and now obsolete beliefs get in your way of progressing, moving forward keeping you stuck? It takes a lot of courage to dig deep within oneself to do this important weeding....lots of emotional pain can be a temporary result....but let that word sink in...temporary.

What does this have to do with remote viewing? Everything I think/believe.....beliefs in fact will determine if you ever even try that first target....and after the first one, the next and the next and the next ones. Your beliefs will determine how far you will develop as a viewer...not only in Rving accuracy, but in all the aspects that remote viewing touches our beings...it's far more than 'a fun hobby'. While it is a personal growth endeavor, a ton of fun can and should be had along the journey....without this being fun, it' just plain old tedious and boring work. (my opinion)

One of the examples used in Waterways thread was that of young children who believe they can do everything, which I believe is true. What stops these untamed and raw beliefs are the words no, can't, won't, shouldn't, impossible etc....and so, they start building their belief systems. These words are totally appropriate when it comes to child safety and grossly overused when it comes to stifling a chills spirit.

For some reason, while thinking about the other thread, Wilbur and Orville Wright came to mind. Why?? I haven't the slightest idea, but they did and I stayed with the thought and let it develop and sure enough, it has lots to say about beliefs.

These 2 brothers saw the same daily occurrence that everyone else did...seeing birds fly. I'm sure, they as well as the rest of mankind, wondered what it would be like to actually fly and wished they could. Before airplanes, probably the vast majority of people wished they could fly....at least just once. And there is the difference....most wished, but these 2 developed a belief that it could be done while all the others wished a dream.

It seems to me, that their belief came before knowledge. Did they 'know' aerodynamics ?... I'm hardly the one to know if they did or didn't, but it seems obvious to me that they didn't know enough of their first mission would have been a total success...and it sure wasn't. How many failures did they have? Failures that in no way supported their belief that it could be done. As we travel around the world in hours, we know the eventually got results from their then laughable and foolish beliefs....that a hunk of stuff could be made airborne...what a joke...what fools.

Now the point of this is- they had an unfounded belief, tested and tried it over and over again. Each time they learned something that allowed for progress. They learned to progress from both failure and success. Do you think their beliefs were challenged along the way? I sure do...but they stuck to their core belief and eventually accomplished the unthinkable, the undoable.

All the same can be said of Henry Ford...and plenty more just like the Wrights and Ford.

If you believe in remote viewing, that not only is possible to do, but that YOU can be a viewer, well then, a viewer you will be. If you believe it can't be done, well then, that's correct also..with a difference...it can't be done by YOU because your belief (disbelief)will limit you, but that doesn't mean it can't be done at all.

So how about us having a discussion of beliefs, how they affect outcomes, how they hold us back, how they create powerful energies both positive and negative. Which beliefs in particular are important for successful remote viewing, which beliefs are the kiss of death for viewers. The importance of keeping our beliefs up to date...getting rid of the ones that no longer work for us.
Whether or not you believe that beliefs matter in remote viewing...why or why not? These are just 'starters'....jump right in and embellish where I've left the holes. Let's chip away at the beliefs that hold us back from better remote viewing.

Moral of all of this? He who has access to a keyboard is apt to type too much and not know when to stop.
Author Known - PDPJ :D
 

PJ

Administrator
Staff member
It is difficult to converse about beliefs, in a way, because I think there is such a chasm between what we "think we think" and what our fundamental psychological structures are set for.

Most people consciously think they have no fear of psi; research indicates everybody does, and profoundly; and my personal experience suggests that at least in my case it's true, though I was flippant about it to begin, and didn't expect the results I got.

As much as we'd like to flippantly say, "Oh gosh, let's just violate the most fundamental rules we've been taught since birth to hold to! No big deal!" it just doesn't seem to work that way. People studying Remote Viewing is a good barometer of fear of psi, as it has an almost textbook/classic set of symptoms.

Dr. Charles T. Tart has an article about fear of psi that is interesting and actually covers these symptoms--which act out in a variety of ways for viewers--at his home page. The article is here:
http://www.paradigm-sys.com/display/ctt_articles2.cfm?ID=35

As for beliefs, I do archetype work fairly regularly of late, though I had a many years break from it. This is a shamanic meditation that has variants in several cultures. A truly excellent book on it, probably the best ever, is Edwin Steinbrecher's The Inner Guide Meditation. Although his examples use archetypes such as tarot and astrology, you can use any archetype--PERSONAL archetypes as well. Even negatives and complexities. Such as, "My lack of money," or, "My relationship with X," or, "The event Z happening this Friday," or whatever.

It is a learning curve; similar meditations can be found in some writings called "conscious dreaming." It takes a little practice to drop into a good state of mind and to get the mix of allowing imagination without propelling it at all. Once some skill is developed, particularly if one is in a fairly deep altered state, these can become almost completely 'autonomous'-ly real. I've had some of these absolutely blow my mind. For example, one time my 'Sun' arch showed up and took me out of the normal area where I do the meds, into what appeared to be a city--we 'traveled' to it--and it was SO detailed, and real, it was un-bleeping-believable. Even during the experience, I was like, "Good grief! Where am I? Where is this place? Is this in me? Am I creating this? Is this some dimensional overlay or something weird like that?" Who knows. But it can be THAT autonomous.

Anyway, this specifically works with beliefs. Usually I specify an issue or belief, but sometimes I let the guide do it. The archs are wildly creative. Sometimes totally obvious for symbolism; sometimes really obscure. My "fear of psi" archmeds were mind boggling, terrifying, and I ended up having to do the three so far sitting up, light on, eyes open, verbally talking out loud to get through them... body-wide fear involved.

As far as changing beliefs, and remote viewing goes, there's been several decades of real specific interest in this--as belief systems, psychology, is known to be the biggest issue in psychic development. The only thing that genuinely seems to change beliefs, is a repetitive forcing of intent, result, hard feedback, comparison. When protocol is followed, there is no 'out' whatever for the subconscious; it is 'forced' to accept just a little. Done consistently, gradual changes in core constructs occur.

But, many viewers psychologically fall into a lot of "redirective" traps the ego/psyche sets up to avoid this core-level change (change=death to the psychology apparently), and that is that... they may spend 10 years in approx. the same place they are now skill-wise, with the core psychology unwilling to change, and them not following a deliberate process to force it.

I have come to believe over the last 8 years observing this field, that the vast majority of people should probably not be exposed too closely to remote viewing anyway. It ranges from useless to destabilizing for the vast majority, which has made me pretty cynical about introducing it to people. I put info up for those already interested; but I don't 'promote' RV itself anymore.

Personal belief systems will always be at the heart of remote viewing skill--and probably everything else in life, from health and wealth to other circumstance. I think that's why RV is best addressed in a shamanic context that tends to focus on a person's habits, beliefs, discipline and will before getting into much of anything else.

PJ
 

polkadotpuhjommies

.... don't be ambiguious with your intent ~
I have come to believe over the last 8 years observing this field, that the vast majority of people should probably not be exposed too closely to remote viewing anyway. It ranges from useless to destabilizing for the vast majority,

I've read a good bit about remote viewing in particular having the ability to really weird people out.... which of course being adversely affected/effected does not exclude other aspects of psi... some people just simply can't handle it. The whole mental process of coming into contact with anything psi hits our thought process which in turns changes our body chemistry and then all kinds of things manifest....good and not so good.

While beliefs may be difficult to 'discuss', so are many other aspects of ourselves. It is likely that the difficult issues are the very ones that need to be examined if one wants to progress in RVing not to mention living their lives.

The 'what we think we believe vs. what we really believe' is of course the core of the belief issue...it's getting to the core that is the big deal. Saint John's 'Dark Night of the Soul' comes to mind.

In the model thread, WW made a comment about the current ways of regarding the conscious vs subconscious needing to be eliminated. I'm hoping he will continue his thoughts about this. the 'belief' is it's the subconscious that holds the keys to all and he may be indicating that this belief might be incorrect.

In some regards, a public discussion about beliefs may be awkward depending on the belief that is being discussed. However, for those beliefs that aren't too major, I think we can take a look at them, see how they don't stand up 'as being true' and perhaps get a few members over the mental hump in some areas...if only to help people realize just how important intent and beliefs are not only in remote viewing, but in their entire life.

But this is me...probably not the majority. I'm a digger. I'm the curious one. I'm the one always striving for understanding and clarity. I'm the one likely to do the hair splitting. I'm the one with determination to probably a fault. I'm the one who probably should be kept away from remote viewing and all things psi LOLOL Actually though, it was having psi things hit me like a ton of bricks that started this real in depth looking into myself. I didn't know what 'it' was that hit me, didn't understand the manifestations I was experiencing...lots and lots I didn't know and understand....and so I met St John's 'Dark Night of the Soul' and as a result, got to also meet more of myself than I knew was possible.

Anyway, I'm hoping that there will be something more that can be added to and examined in this thread.
 

polkadotpuhjommies

.... don't be ambiguious with your intent ~
I must be in some sort of 'simplify life' syndrome. I'm finding that I've been reducing things in order to make them easier to grasp and manage. Ahhhh....hence going to a shrink.... I get it :D

Another way of looking at beliefs and how they work for or against us might be this: in how we live our lives is how we will also remote view. The same skills are needed - attentiveness, awareness, discernment, truth, ego control, a willingness to be wrong or stand corrected, flexiability....and on the list goes. The same strengths and weaknesses we have in our everyday lives are the ones we take with us when viewing.

Well, this is simple then isn't it?...another 'easy'...but always with the same catch. It might be easy in concept, but work in the doing.....there are just no free rides I learned long ago.
 

harriet

New Member
The dark Night of the Soul -- St. John's Journey into the beyond of Christian Mysticism is probably one of the best written Journals of "bravest" acts of faith a person can take. Yet in every religion I have ever encountered, including those with Shamanistic beliefs as "roots" the same "letting go" and leap of faith is a recurrent theme.

Intent, even intent of Remote Viewing must be a clear, and ego-less Act. Aliester Crowley never quite understood this one, failing in his attempt to pass the "Great Void State" or the Dark Night of the Soul, with a huge ego package. There are no reference points except abiding faith in the Allness, and not the individual oneness of holding onto ego gains. In the Great Void there is only one's spiritual self with no other reference point as "guide".

The letting go of that is The Great Fear...the biggest fear of all, so most of us take the baby step by baby step path of extending farther and farther out from the "safety" of our known agreed to Concensus Reality bases, into previously "forbidden" or "hidden to our Cognizant minds, "Realities". Giant Steps sometimes occur spontaneously and are sources of great joy when they happen.

We need to understand our history as a race of beings -- human beings, in order to understand why and how "limitations" were imposed by societal needs to survive many an event. Societal Order evolved from the need to survive overwhelming catastrophe -- the Black Plague, and going back further, a 5,000 year ice age which probably defined "limitation" and need for order in human experience. How much or that Order and limitation we now need is going to be part of the human race's evaluation of itself in Present Time and state of development co-joined to available technologies.

Will we keep the limitations as a form of Disciplinarianism left-over from our distant need to survive the Past? Or will we prune the branches of the tree of order and limitations in order to allow the new buds of our many branches to flower and bloom anew?

As spiritual beings whether Viewers or simply Ourselves without definition, we all reach the portals of the
doors of possibility within ourselves -- and some do involve going through Dark Nights of the Soul in evolutionary process of regaining that which was surrendered in order to facilitate survival in time of great need.

Rather than the word "growth", I would rather embrace the word "regain" the "limited by necessity" parts of ourselves in explorations of our "lost" potentials as Human beings.

Ever get the feeling when you learn something new that you KNOW you knew it at some time before the
learning process triggered the "rememberance"?

Order and disciplined limitation has its place. But how much of that order is now needed to restrict and imprison human potentials that have lain dormant for soo long?

This is a question, we as individuals will either answer or avoid along the Paths of choices of Ten Thousand Roads. Most on these boards, will take that deep breathe and reach out into the unknown in one form or another, only to find a "part of themselves" somehow misplaced be previous adherence to Concensus Reality's do's and don'ts...and I don't kid myself about this one -- There is fear in the Journey, placed there by programming long forgotten in our history as a race of beings.

It had its purposes then...but what is the purpose of that "survival" triggered Order, Limitation and primitive reptilian fear we imposed upon OURSELVES, or inherited as a "basic" from long long ago and far away?.

What parts can we let go -- prune -- and what parts should we keep as "personal" beliefs and truth.

That seems to be the question PD and PJ are asking.
And it is qeustion many of us will ask ourselves in the
Silence of Things Secret in our own hearts and spirits...

In the Same Silence of Things Secret will come the answers we seek, and I believe those will open doors which have remained closed or been nailed shut by Concensus Reality for a long rusty-hinged time...

Each person's "journey" will be different, but I believe the goals are achieving as much of our potential BACK
as humanly possible then developing what has been regained as much as possible. That will win out over the the darkness of fear which lies both behind and ahead of us. In that darkness the Mothers and Fathers of our race endured and survived much so that we could "become"...I honor that.

But it is now possible for us to leave our "limitations" and venture forth into much endless and wonderous possibility. The child in me embraces that. It won't be easy, but if our desire is to not only touch the stars, but live there, then it will be, no matter how many obstacles are placed in our paths along the way. I wish us luck and good fortune on our separate yet aligned journeys!
 

polkadotpuhjommies

.... don't be ambiguious with your intent ~
Harriet,

Impressed comes close to the word I want to be using.

So far in my travels, not many people I've met have been familiar with St. John's 'Dark Night of the Soul.' Of those who have read it, this book always seemed to magically appear for them when it was needed the most...as it did for me 25 years ago.

You said, in your words, most, plus more of what I was trying to say in mine ...yours is better :) Hopefully, between both of our posts, there will be something here for someone to latch onto so that it makes a difference in their life or at the very least, raise an awareness of the importance of keeping beliefs current.

What has been said so far in this thread is not your everyday conversational material....certainly not a discussion or sharing that you would have causally or off the cuff with just anyone. Of all the people I've met so far, there have only been a handful who have had an introspective look into themselves with any type of depth....and it always takes me by surprise. To my way of thinking, I think ' how can anyone AVOID doing this...doesn't just living life make you NEED to do this..isn't this one of those things that a human being HAS to do in order to elevate themselves?'

Damn..... it's hard, hard work not to mention how hard it is to be so brutally honest with and about oneself.

I really wanted to say that you presented much to think about, to consider in a very readable and understandable way.
 

harriet

New Member
Thanks PDPJ and I'd also like to thank P.J. for her
insightful inputs on this thread as well.

The hardest "view" any of us will take is of our own
mirror-image at soul levels...

Yet it is that honest and sometimes painful view that opens many doors to "clear" remote viewing from a solid base of personal insight.
 

waterway

Member
"If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things."
-Rene Descarte


Excellent thread youz guys got going here.

It just seems that our beliefs are our "reality", and we just can't change reality, can we? I think we do, but its darn scarey, and I don't think our subconscious wants any part of it, since they/it doesn't have the luxury the conscious mind has with constant re-testing to verify what is real. I think the subconscious can only hold "reality" together with beliefs, it doesn't have the multiple senses to tell it what is real. So there, it gets scared of change, scared of altered beliefs.

But the ego.... the will.... that can be the iron sheild, or the iron mace... depending on how you weild it. Terribly secure? Terribly dangerous? From what you adventurers have said, it takes a lot of strength and vision to change, to walk into the unknown and mysterious.

What are some things we can do to make the subconscious feel safe AND change at the same time?
 

harriet

New Member
Waterway: Good feedback.

Somebody a long time ago told me: "never pull a magic carpet out from somebody without giving him/her a place to land".... (Think the same source also gave me "Never face an uzi with a waterpistol")...an amazing Zorba the Greek type...

I think first thing to do is evaluate your own particular needs in life -- then add your d'rathers, -- then ask -- how many of the needs can have some fat cut off them, and are the d'rathers just fun or a safety net.

What DO you believe in? Is it inherited, along with all the rest of the unconscious programming we are subjected to daily. Next: "are some of those beliefs keeping me from becoming what I could be as a person and as a spiritual being"? Are those beliefs something you genuinely believe in or are they a safety net? How much of that safety net do you really need to feel "safe" in exploring your own potentials and capabilities? How much of the beliefs involve the word: "don't"...? Were these rules and regs and limitations and beliefs designed to keep YOU safe in Society, or to keep Society safe from the Individuals exploring possibility and potential? (breaking out of the Matrix of programming). How much are You managed by programming? How much do you self-manage your own programming while still respecting the Rights of others to manage theirs?

Once you can cut to the bone of this one, you'll feel alot freer to start building "exit" doors into your OWN personally managed program to "expand". No one can tell you how, or when or if.

That is your OWN personal decision to make and making it isn't a competition with others -- its an internal process designed by you to manage your own Reality apart from the dictates of demands of Concensus Reality. The whole program from beginning to end is yours to design -- your own personal creation...

Hope this one answers a few questions here and there.
 

PJ

Administrator
Staff member
This kind of winds back into Jane Roberts and Seth's writings. Seth goes through it so well, it'd be a shame not to point him out anywhere this thread comes up. The book "The Nature of Personal Reality" for intellectuals, and "Seth Speaks" for normal people (lol) are simply invaluable to anybody considering issues such as belief systems, the subjectivity of reality (and I mean in a literal, not just interpretive, sense), etc.

PJ
 

polkadotpuhjommies

.... don't be ambiguious with your intent ~
Excellent thread youz guys got going here.

I’ve been wanting to get back to this topic and haven’t had the time.

I love words and I love quotes. ‘Say what you mean and mean what you say’.

I like anything that makes me go hhhhhhh......hmmmmmmm....ummmm.....ahhhh...
....things that start a whole inner process of weavings and wanderings...I call these times ‘dilly dallying’ and I can be very creative and productive during these times. I have been known to ‘read’ the dictionary. I like quotes/sayings because they are able to add clarity to so many situations...some one else’s words are able to complete/make clear a concept we are trying to grasp or allow a person to focus on an aspect rather than
the whole array of issues.

Recently, for another situation but applicable here, I came across a few quotes that caused me to pause~~ I will scatter them in as I respond.

It just seems that our beliefs are our "reality", and we just can't change reality, can we?
I agree with you...what we believe, positively/negatively is what OUR reality
is...which can be quite different from that of another persons, but I BELIEVE we can and DO change our reality. How? Our perceptions and attitudes.

Things do not change; we change. ~Henry David Thoreau

I wasn’t born knowing how to ride a two wheel bicycle. I began like everyone else....with training wheels. As I got better with the 4 wheels I heard mutterings of taking training wheels off :( ....then the day came.....only 2 wheels on the bike.

I rode the 2 wheel bike with ‘help’ and remember being really afraid, but also excited. I kept saying ‘I can’t., don’t let go’. The pace picked up and I was being pushed/led faster and faster...DON’T LET GO I SAID.....OH NO.......I felt the wobbling,.... for sure I was going to fall....I CAN’T DO THIS! Peddle faster I heard! And so I peddled my heart out and the wobbling stopped. I WAS RIDING THE BIKE BY MYSELF......and I was so proud....

My reality(belief) was I couldn’t ride a 2 wheeler - I hadn’t yet tried so this was true. Within 5 minutes later, my new belief was I was now a bike rider...which was true. It only took 5 minutes to change that particular
belief which set me up for later on, later in life, the two wheeler became a motorcycle, but this is another story ;)

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Victor Frankl

Another reality I changed was when I closed my business. For 7 years I had a classy and prosperous shop that was a ‘must do, must see what’s new’ kind
of place. I had a customer base that spanned 5 states and it was wonderful.

Enter Wal-mart....4 of them within 15 minutes of me N,S,E,W into an already conservative and thrifty ‘country economy’, then 9/11 and the rest is history. I did NOT want to close my shop. I was determined with enough effort, enough fortitude, enough moxie, enough reading the “Gorilla’ series of ‘how to over come just about every business adversity ’series of books, enough
fine tuning of my business plan for the bank review, starting a business association with local merchants, I could survive Wal-mart...even the bank thought I had a shot. In the end,Wal-mart won of course.

With initial tears and a heavy heart, I planned an 8 week liquidation. If I was going to get out, then I wanted out fast...During the final days, the customers had tears which I matched with a smile and good cheer -thanking them yada yada. The sale went wonderfully...couldn’t have been better. I gave that business blood, sweat and tears 24/7 for 7 years and I loved it.
We locked the doors on the last night, walked out to our cars in the dark and quiet parking lot and all of a sudden, without warning, I reacted to a surge of unexpected emotion, walked over to my husband, hugged him, told him I loved him and that I was HAPPY ! ....and I was. I knew I had done the best thing possible in a way that pleased me. I lost the business but I still had the most valuable things life has to offer.

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Victor Frankl

What happened here? Several things- My belief was that I could survive the odds and I worked hard towards that goal for 2 solid years. 9/11 happened
and it was like being handed a crystal ball. Within 2 days of 9/11, I made a decision based on what I knew ( my new belief) was going to be the economic
consequence of the disaster combined with all of the other local factors. My belief changed in a matter of 2 days based on new perceptions. and on December 1st, ‘the reality of the business’ was gone.

Did I change in those 2 months? I sure did. I hired a firm with skill and expertise that helped me plan ‘the ending’ We bucked heads more than once as I insisted on leaving with grace and dignity which complimented the type of shop I ran while they were all about bargain basement ‘push it out the door bottom line tactics’ - we accomplished both to our satisfaction. I went
from a firm ‘don’t want to do this posture’ to a very proud and happy individual because I did what had to be done in a manner that allowed me tremendous personal growth. I found reasons to be proactive and not reactive. All the efforts I put into ‘saving the business’ I was able to put into successfully ending the business. I only pouted for 1 day during the 2 months, other than that, I forged ahead and I have no regrets. (and no, I do not ever shop at Wal-mart)

What I didn’t personally see, but others told me was this: they saw strength born out of adversity, they saw an already positive attitude enlarge throughout the 2 months, they saw an energy of ‘in control’ while knowing
this was a big loss for me. They saw a person already making future plans while a dream was being dismantled.

I think we do, but its darn scary, and I don't think our subconscious wants any part of it, since they/it doesn't have the luxury the conscious
mind has with constant re-testing to verify what is real.
Sure it can be scary....so start with the changes that will be easiest to contend with and you build on those...the domino effect comes into play.

As for the ‘what is real’?...again, I believe ‘real’ is a persons perspective, their belief(s)....what affects and effects the self. California is presently having a surge of fires. This is real. I live on the East Coast and am not being effected by these fires...they aren’t in MY orbit and therefore are real only in news facts. If it was my house that was in harms way, you better believe
it would be REAL and I would act and react accordingly....perspective.

I think the subconscious can only hold "reality" together with beliefs, it doesn't have the multiple senses to tell it what is real. So there, it gets
scared of change, scared of altered beliefs.

I think we feed and train our subconscious over time. It will learn to back up what we consciously believe. It will push us towards our beliefs. Breaking bad habits would be an example. We never had the habit to begin with...we learned it, we developed it, we kept it. When it comes time to break the habit, the SC has a hissy fit cuz we’ve trained it otherwise and will try it’s best to have us keep the habit cuz that’s what it thinks we want.

Science says that bad habits can be broken in 30 days....after that, new brain patterns have developed. I think if we start with the more simple changes first, the fear factor is tempered enough to allow us to succeed. As we add more changes to ‘the things to change list’, we are also beginning to train the SC that our intent is ‘to change’....that we WANT changes In time, the SC will more readily allow for changes because now IT knows this is what you what. See ? :) Just happen to have something about this :)

A mental pattern is a "recording" in your brain tissue representing a memory of an experience you've had. Every single experience you have, through your senses of sight, taste, hearing, touch and smell is recorded as a memory in your brain tissue. When you experience similar events over and over, your brain records a pattern for them.Today, when you experience
some event, your brain automatically, instantly searches its "library" of recordings, and within milliseconds, replays a patterned memory from a similar experience and you go on autopilot.This is why you almost always feel and act in the same ways in similar situations. Mental patterns are the foundations of all our habits and personality traits. Mental patterns make us
"predictable." We literally couldn't survive without Habitual mental patterns override logic. They often don't seem to make any sense at all... but we are
still controlled by them

I think behind most of our beliefs is fear- we use fear as the measure of determining our limits. Know and deal with the fear and you will be able to adjust the belief. Examine all the Dos/don’t, must/must not,
should/shouldn’ts, can’t/wont etc that drive your life. Know and understand the differences between the wants and needs in your life.

Beliefs cost you...even the ‘good’ ones. There is a price for each one, so choose them well. Each belief needs to be considered on it’s own merit.

Beliefs define who your are. Want to change things in your life?...address your fears, then change your perceptions.

Ask your self this ~ am I more of an optimist or a pessimist? The answer will tell you how/where you focus your attention and what feeds/fuels your
beliefs.

But the ego.... the will.... that can be the iron sheild, or the iron mace... depending on how you weild it.
Sure, and in remote viewing, we need to deal with ego. My first RV viewing was a disaster as far as ‘results’. I had no idea of what I was doing or how to go about even beginning ‘to view’ The target was a pyramid. I said it was a flag...an American one no less. One of the reasons I knew it was a flag was because of the ‘triangular’ stars. I could have quit then and there- believing I couldn’t do this, that all of this remote viewing concept was just a bunch of hocus pocus, wishful thinking. (and there was something about my having gotten the 'triangular' aspect that said I was onto something here) HOWEVER, because I already had a belief in place of other types of psi things working, I tried again based on what I learned about the first
‘failure’.I started educating myself on viewing. My next session was 10000 times better. I actually could verify that I had viewed the target!. Now I had a reinforced belief.

If you really want to do something, you'll find a way; if you don't, you'll find an excuse. --- Anon

Terribly secure? Terribly dangerous?
I suppose it depends on the particular belief being looked at. Start small and work up....little steps before big ones.

So far in life, I can count on one hand the things that REALLY matter- all else is ‘stuff’. I evaluate my beliefs against that handful only.

Where it can get hairy is when the time comes to do ‘the big’ one without enough prep time. I’ve had several of those and it seems to come down to
this ~ we, I, you, are meant to survive...we are hard wired to live. Looking at all the possible choices available, which is the choice that will allow you to
live in the manner that is best for you?...Sure, sounds easy, but it’s not.

Making choices has everything to do with a persons present belief system...this is why it’s so darned important to keep up with and know, to the best of your ability, what it is you believe in and WHY you believe it.....and be willing to adapt, modify and toss out a belief when it is no longer serving you.

From what you adventurers have said, it takes a lot of strength and vision to change, to walk into the unknown and mysterious

If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten. --- Jim Rohn

...not a huge or complicated vision...only the willingness to look at what it is you want/need, where is it you want to go/be and are your current beliefs accomplishing those tasks. If not, then change is needed and change is all about facing and winning over our fears. In a nutshell, fears/the will to survive determines beliefs for good or not so good.

Look at what makes you happy- or not. What is it you are doing that keeps or causes the unhappiness in your life?

My Mother/Father/Grandmother always said to ‘ blah blah blah’, But what do YOU say?...an important difference. I am not one to accept ‘because’...I
require to understand things and issues. I need to know for myself. I am not a blind follower. Have I made mistakes? Of course. Big ones? You bet....but fewer and fewer as I get older. I think this is because I’ve kept my belief systems up to date according to new things learned, new perceptions and the faith that so far in life, I’ve made far more right/good choices/decisions
than not. I think this can be said of all human beings- that we succeed far more often than not.

What are some things we can do to make the subconscious feel safe AND change at the same time?
Start small and build up to the bigger ones. Succeed at changes one by one.

Keep reinforcing your intent and the SC will learn it. Everything has a positive and a negative side to it....even the ‘best’ of things- it’s the natural balance of things. Our perspective, our attitudes determines the
side that gets most of our attention, our focus.

I have to admit, I’ve always been curious enough to try things...with or without always knowing all there is to know. I’m ‘mostly not afraid of making mistakes and I think this helps a lot towards being willing/trying to ‘change’

If you want to truly understand something, try to change it. ~Kurt Lewin
I particularly believe in the above quote. It hasn’t failed me yet.

Regarding your statement of unknown and mysterious I had a life changing experience that I was totally unprepared for. I refer to it now as the most
difficult time of my life. I was scared silly and it was something only I could solve....and no one could tell me how to do it....it was sink or swim time--- those were the choices. I knew for sure I didn’t want to sink. I had to examine who I was~~ not who others wanted or expected me to be. It was the true beginning of discovery of self as determined by ME.

Long story short, St. John and I came up with a plan and I did some major tossing out of other peoples crap and replaced it with ‘what I thought’...what I believed.. Those around me didn’t take kindly to my changes. Who was I to start bucking the system? Who was I to be so forceful of demanding I be recognized for who I was, take it or leave it? That I made it through my personal hell was a true victory...it was the worst time of my life and the best thing I ever did for myself.

BECAUSE it was such a terrible ordeal I vowed I would always remain true to self NO MATTER WHAT, NO MATTER WHO and that I would always know exactly what I thought/felt and the basis for the same.....and I’ve kept this vow about 90% -- life and its surprises have tossed in a few curves(the other 10%) since then but I BELIEVE that I can handle just about anything
that comes my way for my own better good because I’ve done and still do the homework...which is paying attention to my perspective and attitudes.

There is no truth. There is only perception. ~Gustave Flaubert

Just a few musings of mine. I’m sure others here will have their own perceptions and ideas.
 

GENE6

New Member
" While we do our targets, claiming they are fun and interesting and oh wow....really nailed that one, far more is going on than 'having RV fun'. Each and every time we choose to do a target, we are putting our beliefs into play...known ones as well as unknown ones."

polka_dot PUH_JOMMIES,

Every time I get up to ride my unicycle I don't have a heart to heart with Sir Isaac Newton about apples and headaches.

Neither do I have a long talk with god when I start my car to embark on a trip. For some strange reason since Monroe I do bless planes before I fly though.

The way I look at RV it is a skill. In a way it is like learning to ride a unicycle. To learn how to ride a unicycle doesn't give you better balance, get you girls, or have a pay off when you get older. It is an odd skill that most people can do if they have the commitment and desire to do so.

Just as with RV, riding a unicycle can make for some spectacular and very public falls. The tallest I ever road was 15 feet in my youth. The biggest fall was during a HS assembly riding an 8 foot unicycle with a 12 year old child on my shoulders. I took the brunt of the fall while the kid landed right on his feet.

I can still ride one but because of issues with my back it is something I rarely do anymore. In fact I own one of those LARGE wheels that I look forward to riding again when I get out of bed.

As for RV... I believe it works. If I run out of beliefs or get confused I just believe in myself.

RV is a skill.

Gene6
 

Glyn

New Member
Hi Gene and all,

As for RV... I believe it works.  If I run out of beliefs or get confused I just believe in myself.

RV is a skill.

Yes, I agree, but there is an important difference which, IMO, we should bear in mind when we are striving to get better at RV.

With RV (as with all activities involving ‘psi’), the difficulty is that the information gathering does not go on at a conscious level, as it does when learning a ‘normal’ skill, because as we know, it 'comes in' way below the threshold of our awareness.

It is thought that ‘psi’ data is received by (or ends up being processed by) the right hemisphere of our brains which deals with non-verbal, 'broad-based' thinking, and because there may not be a lot of help from the ‘nitty-gritty’ logical left side then is can result in a load of symbolic/conceptual information in our sessions as the brain draws heavily on our established memories to try and get its ‘message’ across.

See the differences here (this is a good site BTW):

http://www.web-us.com/brain/right_left_brain_characteristics.htm

The more experienced a viewer (the more they do RV) then the mind/brain seems to get better at this, and the more accurate these associations and concepts can be. This is also aided by experience in keeping the more conscious mind from poking its ‘nose’ in and causing us to jump to conclusions.

It may be that those who have stronger links between the two hemispheres have a head start, so to speak; the so-called 'naturals'. I was reading something (sorry, no idea where now) that had an intriguing throw away line….apparently it was found that there were abnormally developed links between the left and right hemispheres in the brains of Albert Einstein, and also of Edgar Cayce.

I personally have noticed that the concepts and ‘AOL’ I get are, generally, more target related, even if quite tenuously…than they were when I first started RV. This of course varies. :D

It may well be that it is true that the more we practice, the better those associations get, and therefore the clearer the impressions. Maybe, just maybe, as well as getting better at that we can also get that left hemisphere involved more….so we can really start ‘rockin’. Whatever, we should not give up, and should take the rough with the smooth as a good learning experience.

So, we need constant serious practice that strives for accuracy yes, and we need to congratulate ourselves mentally when we have our successes. I also happen to think we need fun and high interest, mixed with a liberal dose of friendly social interaction and non-stop encouragement from our peers and mentors. I do think we need to examine our beliefs, change our procedures and mind-sets according to our individual experience, and avoid tedium or getting into a rut. We also need to avoid other people's dogma. Most of all though we need constant ‘dialogue’ with our minds…get forging those links :D.

Have a look at this. Gives me eyestrain…but you can see the old knowledge behind what appears to be new…they weren’t daft those ‘yogis’

http://www.web-us.com/brain/Visual_Test_Hemispheric_Dominance.htm


Just my thoughts on it,
Regards,
Glyn
 

polkadotpuhjommies

.... don't be ambiguious with your intent ~
As for RV... I believe it works. If I run out of beliefs or get confused I just believe in myself.

RV is a skill.

...and I agree with you 100%. RV is a skill as is believing in yourself....one far more important than the other. You can live a lifetime without ever RVing and live a wonderful life, but the quality of a life without belief in ones self is less than stellar. So much of the population has self esteem issues-
hence all the self help books that have abounded for decades and hitting the top of the charts during the famous ‘Me” era ~ the same era when people were needing space to ‘find themselves’.

heart to heart with Sir Isaac Newton / Neither do I have a long talk with god
I live in a very interesting part of the USA. In fact, it’s been called a microcosms by ‘outsiders’ as well as by the Banker who read my business plan of many years ago.

My business was in a town populated by approx. 6000 people. Most of these people are ‘native’ to the area and are of Amish or Mennonite backgrounds who live their lives according to those ‘beliefs’ amongst other towns people who do not believe as they do. This makes for an interesting mix of dynamics played out daily. Very few of these people were ‘regular’ customers as I was ‘too worldly’. Geez....I shudder to think what would have become of me if it got out that I was also psychic!!

While you wouldn’t speak to god or Isaac Newton about such mundane things, these people do. I was not born and raised here and am a very independent and self sufficient person and to hear women say to me that they couldn’t purchase a lampshade without either having their husband
seeing it first or secondly, having HIS permission to make the purchase was a real learning curve for me. I would last about 3 hours in their lifestyle based on their beliefs. 95% of the homes in this town have front porches and rocking chairs, by the pair, are a favorite decorative, but decorative always with a utilitarian purpose. I offered 8 styles of chairs in various finishes and type of seats....lots of choices. I can’t tell you how many chairs I sold that were the result of ‘answers to prayers of guidance’.

There are many more examples I could give. Inside, I was yelling, PEOPLE, WILL YOU WAKE UP ALREADY!’, but eventually I came to understand and accept the differences. These people simply functioned under a belief system that
was ‘foreign’ to me. In their eyes, I am the odd ball - a woman not only in a business situation but also THE owner. I drive a convertible, they use horse and buggy or have ‘personal drivers’ if/when a car is needed. They dress in their traditional garb while I’m anything but similar.....and the list of differences goes on and on.

Since moving into this area, I’ve seen many subtle changes taking place. Belief systems are being challenged right and left. This generation is the one having the most difficulties. These are the ones who are being influenced by the larger cities, Philadelphia being one of them, within 1 1/2
hours away and New York only 3 hours away and Washington DC 3 hours the other direction. The economy since 9/11 has remained shaky here. Tourism is down drastically. Amish women are needing to look for survival outside of their cloistered way of life and are working in ‘normal retail’ places of business owned by ‘non believing “English’ as we are called.

To learn how to ride a unicycle doesn't give you better balance, get you girls, or have a pay off when you get older.

Just as a little aside on this remark ~ any skill(s) we learn as youngsters(adulthood as well) bolsters the self esteem and if the continuation of learning skills is added to over the years stepping stones of success are the results and I believe this does in fact have payoffs when we get older...it’s part of the learning to believe in yourself as you think is the key.

Gene6, I’m not exactly sure why you referenced the particular comment that you did, but find that you did interesting nonetheless.
 

GENE6

New Member
Hi Gene and all,


The more experienced a viewer (the more they do RV) then the mind/brain seems to get better at this, and the more accurate these associations and concepts can be. This is also aided by experience in keeping the more conscious mind from poking its ‘nose’ in and causing us to jump to conclusions.

Glyn,

Maybe we need to teach our conscious mind to jump to the Right conclusions?

Gene6
 

GENE6

New Member
Just as a little aside on this remark ~ any skill(s) we learn as youngsters(adulthood as well) bolsters the self esteem and if the continuation of learning skills is added to over the years stepping stones of success are the results and I believe this does in fact have payoffs when we get older...it’s part of the learning to believe in yourself as you think is the key.

Gene6, I’m not exactly sure why you referenced the particular comment that you did, but find that you did interesting nonetheless.

Wow..! Thanks! I think that is probably the nicest thing anyone on this system has written to me since I got here.

Polka,

I think it is dangerous to start tacking a "Belief System" on Remote Viewing. As I wrote in another message "RV is the new Scientology!" - In a joking manor.

Getting back to my unicycle.. I had the misfortune to have a few bicycles stolen. The last one (can't remember why I didn't have a lock) really broke my heart. So logically I looked to find a "Cycle" that nobody would steal. My idea worked nobody ever stole any of my unicycles. I did pay the price of looking like a complete nerd through.

The reason I got into RV was also a logical choice. For nearly as far back as I can remember I have been able to do Psychic things. When I was 14 I found a cool paper back book. This book explained a good part of all the ways you can use your ability's and gave me a mental tool set to work from. (can't remember the name or author) Then life sets in. You learn from society that PSI doesn't exist and you are a diluted nut case if you believe in it.

So I pushed all that out of my mind and did my best to live a normal life. Just when I thought I understood that 2+2=4 another PSI event would happen to upset the apple cart. So by the time I was in my twenty's I would "Believe" one day and "not believe" the next. This was the best I could do at keeping to opposing ideas in my head at once.

Then in 1996/97 I saw a TV documentary about RV. It had old guys with pencils and paper that did psychic spying. Deep down I knew that this was a way to finally come to terms with my psychic abilities. I contacted Paul Smith and took his intro course. I now believe beyond doubt that it works and there is more going on here than the skeptics & modern science can explain.

Oh and then I had a string of bad targets so I created RVTargets.com to practice without human error.

---------------------------

Speaking of beliefs. I have a couple of favorite object lessons. One was a battle between the French and the British. The Brits were out numbered 10+ to one. The French "Believed" that because of their superior numbers, knights on horseback, etc. they were going to kill all the Brits. The Brits had a large percentage of LONGBOW men. When the French attacked the arrows cut them down. Unfazed the French kept attacking and the Brits kept killing them. The Brits hardly lost a man. The French were defeated.

Second

The Chinese Sholin Priests (or some other extreme martial arts sect) attacked the modern armed (machine guns) Japanese. With all their spiritual and martial arts the Chinese were cut down very efficiently.

So I prefer to think and use RV as a tool, a skill. To start adding more on to it is very dangerous. I would venture to say that some RV Teachers have already tried to create whole belief systems around RV. And some Viewers are extremely rigid / intolerant in the way they use RV . That is also kind of scary.

Gene6
 

polkadotpuhjommies

.... don't be ambiguious with your intent ~
...hmmmm ~ things that make me go hmmm and put a twinkle in my eye :D

The French were defeated.

...how can I not then point out that the French apparently didn't have the correct beliefs? LOL

If it is seeming as though I am trying to make a belief system built upon RVing, then I need to be shown where I implied that so I can correct it.

My main point of this thread at all, is to examine personal beliefs in order to make changes, should a person feel the need to, in ANY area of life. Because this is an RV forum, it only made sense to tie it in with RVing...duh :D, right?

RVing is NOT to be the belief system, but I feel we DO bring our currently existing beliefs into RVing and that what we bring to a session impacts the session. Who we are and what we are currently believing can determine the accuracy of a session and the ability to even have a session.

So, show me where I erred and I will clear it and clean it up pronto, cuz this isn't what I'm saying or implying.

I think most of us have had problems in accepting and adjusting to finding ourselves in a psi reality...it just goes against all that most of us have been taught...it simiply isn't 'logical'. As human beings, we all have our beliefs challenged on many levels, but I think psi people really get the works...we really have to contend with sorting out psi against 'supposed' reality. I think we have to work harder to get ourselves balanced and to stay balanced..especially in the beginning stages.

After we become a bit more seasoned, we can take things, psi and otherwise, in our stride with much more ease and grace. We of all people, need to make a firm foundation for ourselves, based on beliefs that will support us so that we can believe and trust in ourselves when 'surprises' come along.

But my main point was that of the serious need for us to be current in our beliefs AS WELL AS knowing and understanding the basis of the beliefs we hold....especially those that prevent us from accomplishing what it is we want from life, what holds us back, what creates the problems for us that we can't seem to overcome, why we might be the type of person that sees the glass as half empty as opposed to half full.
 

Glyn

New Member
Hi Gene,

Glyn,
Maybe we need to teach our conscious mind to jump to the Right conclusions?
Gene6

Well if the impressions that bubble up from our sub become more accurate, we will; maybe...

Just my thoughts. Maybe the wrong ones, but you gotta start with something. Everyone forms their particular opinions and I think they can help us...but they can also start to hinder if not constantly revised.  

I agree with you about holding on to beliefs BTW. The problem with the French cavalry was that they had a bad case of resistance to change....fortunately for us Brits.  ;)

Glyn
 

GENE6

New Member
Polka,

Oh that is what you meant. So many folks on here just jump down your throat for such small things.

" RVing is NOT to be the belief system, but I feel we DO bring our currently existing beliefs into RVing and that what we bring to a session impacts the session. Who we are and what we are currently believing can determine the accuracy of a session and the ability to even have a session. "

That is exactly correct. In a way you use yourself as a lab rat "at the target" describing how you feel, what you see, what you taste, etc. Each of us see the world through different beliefs and experiences.

You can also think of it as a learning tool. As you task different targets you also learn about them. One of my first semi successful targets was the Utah Arch. I actually traveled to Moab UT and walked (for me a long walk) out to the arch. The experience game me so much more feedback then a fuzzy picture did. It can be a moving & learning experience to visit a target (in the flesh.)

Oh but some people go off the deep end using RV. They become so wrapped up in its culture, politics and far fetched "RV Beliefs" it can be very Cult-ish.

So that is why I prefer to "Believe" that RV is a Skill. Virtually the same skill as learning how to ride on one wheel.

Gene6
 
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