C G Jung's Collective Unconscious

Ghoul

New Member
I've heard many descriptions of Jung's concept of the Collective Unconscious being compared to the Matrix or Holograph and other even more vague ideas.

This is such a disservice to Jung & all he fought for!

His Collective Unconscious theory is more in-line with modern emotional intelligence theories. We all collectively as human beings share genetic markers that determine the development of our organs & even (as was speculated by Jung) our brains, and therefore our minds.
Claiming that the Collective Unconscious is some mystical connection between all peoples is like saying that Remote Viewing by definition is a complex form of Tarot Card reading.
With the advent of these Freudians, especially during the 80s and so forth, was really detrimental to the evolution of psychological theory.
For example; it was common practice for a psychoanalyst to diagnose autism in a child, regardless of symptoms, as being caused by repressed sexual feelings on part of the mother. So the child would wait in the waiting room & the knowledgeable shrink would explain to the mother why she was the cause of her child's illness.
Some parallel's to Eve eating the forbidden fruit??!
The dark ages of psychiatry have not left us just yet. There was a strong conflict between Freud & Jung, not unlike the kind of bickering that goes on among different RV community leaders. Freud's militant style of emposing his theories generally won out over the more passive Jung.
That there is a new fancy name for behaviour effected by genetic heritage which gives NO credit to Jung is just one example of how that genius was sidelined by his profession because of his discontent with that imbecile everyone gives credit to, the unconscious etc - Freud.
And there are shrinks whom would love to garner that elitist authoritarian stature once again. Associating a mystical notion with a genuine scientific concept by a disaffected genius just helps these shrinks with their freud-mongering. :p

I'm not saying that everyone isn't connected on some mystical level... just that Jung's Collective Unconscious theory didn't.

- Rob
 

Benton

New Member
Staff member
Hey ghoul,

This is very insightful, and I'm glad you mentioned it. Jung wasn't talking about a shared consciousness.... but a shared history.... as you ably pointed out.

What is painfully funny is... I used the INCORRECT idea of Jung's collective unconscious in a recent Rhine Center presentation where I talked about the collective Conscious.

<Insert "avoidance of eye contact" and "blushing" here>

I'm a big enough fan of Jungs to have avoided this stupidity.... but when have I avoided stupidity?

I've never been a believer in Freud's concepts of the psycho-sexual dynamics, though I admire the contributions he made to the legitimacy of the science. I am also troubled by recent books damning Jung, so I share some of your frustrations with the science.

Thanks.
 

morgan

Member
<-also studies psych.
just watched a very indepth piece on jung the other day. called "matter of heart". have it here on the computer, as a matter of fact.

say.. is there any way to fileshare? i have been using an intranet so long i have forgotten how to exchange large files on the internet would there be a way for us to pool our audiovisual resources? i have quite a few interesting things at the moment and it seems such a waste not to provoke thought in others also.
 

Ghoul

New Member
Benton: I used the INCORRECT idea of Jung's collective unconscious in a recent Rhine Center presentation...
It's a very easy mistake to make 8) Jung even mentioned how he had reservations for using that particular terminology because of this, but we all make mistakes.

Joe_S: Right. RV is much less complex..
Sorry Joe, I know next to nothing about tarot except from what I've seen people do. I'm real ignorant, don't mean to dish tarot, it's just the new-age connotations which it has... It's a terrible analogy. :p
 

Ghoul

New Member
animal2ug.gif

I have my own special language damnit! Noone understands it but me lol ;) You can take on Animal!​
 

LD

Member
Staff member
Ghoul,
I think Freud might have something to say about Animal, but I say:
Sometimes a muppet wearing a collar with a drumstick,
is just a muppet wearing a collar with a drumstick. ;D
 
R

restful

Guest
Hey Ghoul,

You are too funny :) Can I have your birthday info? Just date, time (if you have it), place and location? I know it's personal info but I'd like to do your chart for some reason LOL.

Send a private message if you want or if you're uncomfortable; that's cool too. I'll pass on the animal thing. There used to be a guy who looked like that who worked at the bank during certain holidays and just wore the head of "whatever" for the kids. For some reason, he really gave me the creeps. No idea who he was but he was all over the place and /sigh; I'll pass LOL.

Brayden
 

Benton

New Member
Staff member
Suddenly we're all putting down people for wearing spiked collars and carrying drumsticks and being called "animal". When will this prejudice stop? We're supposed to be accepting and open to each other here. Where's the love? LOL!

Okay, back on topic...uh.... Jung. Do you think Jung was on the right track? Do you think there is some shared archetypal history? Is it biological? And if so... what is your opinion of socio-biology?
 

Ghoul

New Member
Benton: Suddenly we're all putting down people for wearing spiked collars and carrying drumsticks and being called "animal". When will this prejudice stop? We're supposed to be accepting and open to each other here. Where's the love? LOL!
I agree. Where is the love? Sorry Benton, I didn't see your post until just now!

Benton: Okay, back on topic...uh.... Jung. Do you think Jung was on the right track?
Well I believe he was more 'on-track' than Freud.

Benton: Do you think there is some shared archetypal history?
Sure.

Benton: Is it biological? And if so... what is your opinion of socio-biology?
Partly biological. Though as with anomalous cognition & PSI, who can say how this information is propogated? The human brain is a fantastically complex, data-interactive organ. I remember seeing (on TV) a quadriplegic who was wired up to a computer, and within 3 months, he could move the mouse-cursor on the screen and 'select' options.
Well I don't know much of sociobiology, though it sounds like another fancy name for another of Jung's theories. :p

Rob
 

Benton

New Member
Staff member
See, all ya got to do is whine on one thread about people ignoring your posts, and suddenly people are answering each line! Life is grand.

Uh...oh, the topic.

Sociobiology is a branch of science that says many social behaviors are biologically wired. While this is certainly easily explained in many animals, in humans it causes a lot of controversy. Some people see it just as excuse making, just blaming every bad thing on "human nature". Though I think sociobiology for humans has some validity, I am not a big fan of excuse making.... except when I am making the excuses, of course.
 

Ghoul

New Member
Re: Sociobiology

Sociobiology is a branch of science that says many social behaviors are biologically wired.
Well many behaviours are biologically wired. :)

While this is certainly easily explained in many animals, in humans it causes a lot of controversy.
For the love of God why I wonder.

I am not a big fan of excuse making.
Neither am I. :)

This is one of the integral failures of 'science', the failure to look beyond the obvious limitations of our ideologues. Systems within systems affected by different systems... it's not that one particular theory is completely invalid, but how we apply it renders it redundant. For example, we tend to deal with 'absolute' values, when at the present time concerning a lot of 'science', all we have are some observations. So observing that some human behaviour is biologically determined, does not then equal every behaviour is biologically determined. We can, apparently at least, exercise some free will.

I'm not a believer in the behaviourist 'tabula rasa' principle, where we have absolutely nothing to start & we are completely shaped by our experiences... but I do accept that our upbringing, our experiences definitely have A effect on our development. So we end up with segregated schools of thought, each vehemently defending their 'absolute' truth. It's a sad state of affairs. Especially since most of the 'founders' of these seperate schools have been dead so long.. maybe that's one reason that nothing has changed. :p

I appreciate your opinions though, keep 'em coming ;)
Thankyou

Rob
 
Generally speaking, isn't the truth usually somewhere closer to the middle between two viewpoints? Most people probably don't like to think that way because it's more comfortable to pick a simple theory or explanation and go with it. However, when you REALLY want to understand something, you almost always have to look at opposing viewpoints, and that's a lot of work that most people don't want to do. Holistic holistic holistic.
 

Bingo

New Member

Hey I have just been reading this thread.... I find this very interesting... Has anyone heard of string theory? If you have then I apologise for my over simplification of it but basically, it states that everything is made of 'strings' that are vibrating at certain rates and it is these rates of vibration that give each atom, element, molecule its physical form. Using this theory also allows scientists to make the math work when talking about relativity.

I just think that this fits in really with with RV and Jungs collective unconscious. I like things that tie up! ;D

Bingo
 

Ghoul

New Member
Gilain_Irongrinder:

Generally speaking, isn't the truth usually somewhere closer to the middle between two viewpoints?
notgonnahappen3vm.png
Yeah, well um... that's your opinion! ;)
Bingo:

I just think that this fits in really with with RV and Jungs collective unconscious. I like things that tie up!

Me too! :D
benderbeer8gt.png
Cheers!​
 
Ghoul - Indeed, sir... just my opinion. :)

I wasn't intending an affront, just thinking out loud again, I guess. Seems like this board is a pretty good place to do that.
 
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