CRV - Controversial Who is The Best Trainer Debate

Millenium

New Member
Someone sent this to me, Its a segment from Coast 2 Coast of Paul H Smiths
recent interview which has caused quite a ruckus on the various CRV lists to put it mildly ::)

http://www.sting-ray.net/images/C2C/PaulonC2CAM.mp3

M
 

Mycroft

Active Member
To me it would be splitting hairs between PSI ability and Remote Viewing. The Monroe Institute has been testing people for decades and few walk out with more PSI ability than the came in with, but a whole lot more understanding.

Then if you listen to the wording maybe he is making better Remote Viewers. It's like shake and bake everything is there. There isn't anything keeping you from gathering all the knowledge, practice and relationships on your own.

For the gr$$n I hope it is one of the best courses, last time I looked his courses are also the highest priced.

Remote Viewing is only a small portion of the PSI arena.

Mycroft
 

Marv_Darley

New Member
Staff member
Remote Viewing is big business for these guys. We don't bat an eyelid when other commercial enterprises advertise themselves as being better than their competitors; why the surprise here?

Marv :)
 

PJ

Administrator
Staff member
Well the RV field is entertaining, if nothing else.

It's like Paul is turning into Ed Dames before our very eyes.
 

Mycroft

Active Member
PJ said:
It's like Paul is turning into Ed Dames before our very eyes.

I got something completely different out of the recording. To me it is an end game of sorts, he is making a major pitch and of course using his own statistics to prove a point. Certainly Paul Smith is a class above, even with his dowsing collaboration with (you know who).

I think there is only so many years left for Remote Viewing to become entrenched in this chaos we call global consciousness. Once all the heroes are gone or retired, it will be very difficult to point back to a living person who can attest to its abilities. My point being he is making the hard pitch while the landmarks still exist.

On the other hand 2012 may level the playing field. If that is true then make your money now because there isn't much demand for solid rubber tires when everyone is riding on inflatables..

Mycroft
 

daz

Remote viewer, author, artist and photographer.
Staff member
I thinks its more about the way it was done and then discussed by paul on the shared Lyn and Paul CRV list that upset many people including Lyns students. Especially as bot parties Lyn and paul dont really have that many public viewers and sessions although as I stated I ahve seen quite a few from Lyn student in the climate change experiment and on UKRV - which is a very small start.

The other worrying and destructive thing from the comments is that this is the chair of the IRVA, being both self promoting hence losing all impartiality in his role and by being confrontational which has provided email traffic the likes of we havent seen since the rv wars of the late nineties - which we all dont wnat to go back to.

It just doesn't seem like the attitude from the head of an organisation that says it wants to promote community and rv growth - quite the opposite.

Apart form this whatever Paul says there is no way a system can be devised that can prove one teachers ability to train over another - its impossible with all the factors in play.

just another day in rv paradise.

all the best...

Daz
 

PJ

Administrator
Staff member
Maybe he meant well.

Sometimes things just don't go quite as planned. (Ask me how I know...)
 

katzenhai2

Ambassador
Seems he will be the next main RV-Workshop Guy with his dowsing-production team (moneymoneymoney), because Dames is now in Ukraine and will not have many workshops in the future. The wind is changing...

You know, C2C is the main marketing platform for all those RV-people. A hot spot so to say.
So say goodbye to our ol' good boy Paul.
 

katzenhai2

Ambassador
Anyone know the results from the CRV-REG experiment made by Paul in November?
http://www.irva.org/Research.html
 

daz

Remote viewer, author, artist and photographer.
Staff member
All I know is that Melvin the lead guy who started and part funded the REG project was extremely pissed that IRVA would not let him publish the results - which I did get sent a prelim report on but cant seem to find????

I think they must have ironed out the problems though - email attached:

21.1.09 (edited)
------
email deleted
------


all the best...

Daz
 

PJ

Administrator
Staff member
Daz, did Morse have a TRUE random generator? I wouldn't even look at a study that didn't, but they cost thousands I think, which makes me wonder. I still respect Dr. Utts as a scientist (despite her IRVA association, sigh), and if she isn't supporting Morse's paper then there is probably some good reason. Has anybody asked her why?
 

daz

Remote viewer, author, artist and photographer.
Staff member
PJ, i dont know - im sure they must have sorted this out by now - iRVA probably wnated to rewrite the article or something?
The REG machine used is Im guessing the same as the one Andrew Usher at UKRV has been using which i affected during one test session (see my blog) from here:
http://www.psyleron.com/reg1_lite.aspx

all the best...

Daz
 

katzenhai2

Ambassador
A TRUE number random generator is, as far as I know, a device which have an radioactive material inside and a "diode" measures the decay rate of particles. Well, the other thing is a REAL quantum random number generator like this: http://www.idquantique.com/products/quantis.htm
But costs a bit more. TRUE random would be a filmed lava lamp because its impossible to calculate what comes next and something is influenced by physically forces. Not sooo expensive, but has no software included. ;)

By the way, which one has Andrew Usher in use, the lite, the standard or the pro version? And which one used Paul Smith in his experiences?
Not sure there are really big differences except for more support... ???
 

daz

Remote viewer, author, artist and photographer.
Staff member
I dont know much about these im afraid but the makers of them have solid credentials.

I'm sure Andrew has the 'pro' version with he extra software etc. not sure what one Paul and his team used.

daz
 

RedCairo

do you ever dream you're someone else?
It would be so easy to simply ask one of them (you speak with them, I don't), whether they used a random generator or a TRUE random generator -- anybody using it for alleged science I would pray knew the difference, after all.
 

daz

Remote viewer, author, artist and photographer.
Staff member
All i have that i can show is this paragraph from an unpublished article from Melvin Morse that was submited to the IRVA's Apature - but was rejected or something - I understand this has been sorted as youll probably see a version of this in the mag in the future.

If anyone wants to PEM me I will supply a copy of this unpublished article on the CRV/REG results.

WHAT IS A RANDOM EVENT GENERATOR (REG)

This is a quantum source of a random stream of data, generated either by decaying radioactive material or the signal noise generated by the junction of a commercial transistor. It creates a data stream as random as the Universe will permit. This data stream is not deterministic, such as the random number generator in a computer or simply flipping a coin multiple times would produce. This has important theoretical implications, as the REG produces a data stream of unlimited possibilities at the quantum level. We used the Psyleron device, developed by scientists at Princeton University.

One early pioneer of the REG was Helmit Schmidt of the Boeing Corporation. In the early 1970s, he published papers documenting that he could anticipate the outcome of the REG in a small but statistically meaningful way.(1) The McDonald Douglass Corporation then funded Brenda Dunne and Robert Jahn of Princeton University to study possible mind-machine interactions between pilots and aircraft. A similar effect on sensitive electronic equipment, watches, and credit cards has been reported in survivors of cardiac arrest following near death experiences (2).

In 1997, Jahn et al published their 12 year experience assessing the ability of operator intention to effect the data stream of the REG, which was then followed up by an effort of German investigators to replicate the Princeton Studies. Dean Radin, in Entangled Minds, recently reviewed this research and his analysis of the complete literature indicates a small but statistically significant ability of the mind to effect the output of a quantum based REG. (3)

I have been studying the REG for several years, but never took it seriously precisely because the effects are so subtle. Then, my two year old daughter, and my wife saw me with it, and showed me they can influence the data stream at will. The key seemed to be that they didn’t realize that they couldn’t do it, for them it was a fun game to play.

CASE NUMBER ONE: I took my REG to my basic CRV training class with Paul H Smith, and had it on throughout his demonstration of the CRV protocol. My fellow students developed a pool of six potential targets for Paul to view. We wrote a brief description of each target on a piece of paper and placed it in a thick sealed envelop.
The final target was chosen at random without any of us knowing the final target.

I really had no idea what to expect from this experiment as it had never been done before.
I was astonished to see that not only did Paul effect the data stream, he did it in a way that precisely matched the stages and breaks of the CRV protocol. During his S1 and early S2, the formerly random data stream became organized within a 99.9 % confidence level. During his AOL breaks, the data stream returned to normal. This seemed to indicate that his contact with the “signal line” correlated with his ability to organize the output of the noise from a machine through quantum interactions.

So yes they used the 'pro' Psyleron device from the website link.

daz
 

Tamra

New Member
Interesting thread. I'll add a few facts since they're relevant to the subject. About a year before Paul announced that a student had brought a REG to intro class, I had spoken to him about it. The conversation was relaying the interview I had done with John Valentino (President of Psyleron) for an article for Aperture! Paul said the editor had quit, so it couldn't run. Close to a year later, he announced he had this great idea -- the same idea John and I had discussed.
He never mentioned Psyleron or John Valentino and I did mention how that bothered me very much. It still does. John is brilliant and deserved mention of his work and ideas. Instead, it looked to me like he was more than marginalized -- he was made invisible. I hate that shit. Fortunately he is not invisible within SSE. RV is a different can of worms though.
I'm glad to hear Melvin, Daz, and Andrew are all using the REG. Meeting John Valentino would be a mentally stimulating thing to and I wanted to mention that. And him. And his work.
 
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