gotpsi.org

[polkadotpuhjommies]

I totally understand how you feel Gene.

It seems it needs to be determined who the posts belong to...to the poster? to TKR? Both?

In the galleries, one section does not allow removal of a session. In another, you may remove, edit, revise, whatever.

Not too long ago, the question came up about keeping posts in the 'cat scratch fever' section and most seemed to think, yes, keep all posts in tact for various reasons. However, and I haven't checked myself, unless this section is locked or in some way made 'tamper' proof, anyone can go into those threads and remove their posts.

I have an opinion on what I think about the comments you made, but my opinion may not be based on factual information, such as I mentioned in my second sentence.

Another aspect you mentioned is that of changing 'historical' events. It goes even further than this in my opinion. In the situation(s) that brought this issue to awareness, this person not only deleted posts from that particular thread, but deleted ALL THEIR POSTS UNDER ALL THEIR NAMES throughout the entire message forum. What happens if someone decides to do this again? What happens when a member who has made big contributions by way of postings, decides to pull their posts? As I see it, not only does it 'change history' as you mentioned, but worse, it destroys the context and integrity of not only the thread(s) involved, but across the entire board!

If enough posts are removed, most of these threads won't even make sense to any future reader. What is the value of these boards then?

Yes, some further thought needs to be given to these aspects.

 

[Joe_Black]

I think once a post has been replied to, it should be uneditable. or after 10 minute or something perhaps.

 

[Abstract_1dea]

I hate that the posts are gone.

I didn't have that kind of problem pulling meaning out it.
I liked the challenge and apprciated his consice meaning.
Add two cans water for consumption.
Kind of like a Koan.  I like things that make me think.

I picked my screen name because I have been told that I think in abstract terms and speak in outlines.  I was even relieved that somebody was more abstract than myself.  It has taken much concentration to put all my thoughts together for an understandable format that others can understand.  Maybe dammage was done.

Words don't have to be poetry to be art.

Steppe, when you removed the posts, you left a hole.
How can you remove a hole?

I just assumed that all posts belonged to TKR.  I'll leave mine even knowing the choice I have.  Every mistake in all it's glory.
I need to know sometimes what an idiot I have been.

 

[Joe_S]

To me deleting post, having ppl changing history of what they said publically is wrong and would seem to open the door for abuse.

I am going to bring the matter up with the council of folks who run the place. �It would seem to me that changing or deleting posts should be stopped.

Gene Smith

Modified P.S. Unless of course a lot of people think this is a stupid idea at which point I will delete this post and ad my voice to all those haranguing the idiot who came up with this notion to begin with.

deleting posts are fine by me, after all people do own what they write and can do what they want with it... if they want what they said gone, whatever... You do run the risk of someone making a huge contribution deciding to leave and take all their postings with them, again, to me they have a right to do so regardless of how I feel about it... I may not like it, but each individual has to make their own choices regarding this...
A case can be made for preserving valuable information, history, and whatever the case may be, I would agree that it is a good idea, but I also believe that each person should be able to do what they want with their writings... so there is a conflict there, but I believe the right of the individual and control of their own expression overrides the preservation of history... that's just me though....
but..... lets take away the modify option... it seems this is just wayyyyy to tempting to the average Joe out there........

;D

 

[polkadotpuhjommies]

It will be interesting to see how this all resolves if there isn't a policy already in place.

I notice there was mention of copyright 'rights' but not anything to do with just postings.

it seems this is just wayyyyy to tempting to the average Joe out there........

errr...or Joe_S or Joe_B, keeping them apart from average of course ;D

 

[EricT]

Gonna pop my 2 cents in here, seeing as we aint talking about gotpsi.org anymore anyhows...

I use the modify option alot, as I ten to misspell things and read them again later, and not want to look like the moron of english grammer that I am.

I think that those who resort to using the delete option are going to get ridiculed right outta here, as Steppe seems to have been. And I cant say that I disagree terribly with the end result. I think if youre going to say something, say it, but be mature enough to make sure its appropriate. If you get a little hotheaded and go over the top - then apologize later.

Kinda like viewing in the galleries, we do have the mercy kill option. I dont use it, but I respect its use for those that do. And I might use it someday.

No idea if that lends itself to our discussion, just trying to sound things out.

Eric

 

[PJ]

Aside from the rather archaic techs a couple sites use for bbs, nearly all modern BBS systems -- and even the archival systems of the yahoo and google groups -- allow members to delete their own posts. If we were to prevent that, I feel it would be somewhat overbearing on our part.

I agree that occasionally someone may flip out and leave and take all their posts with them. I might add this seldom happens except when the individual comes across as ... er ... looking for a diplomatic word here .. "notably unique" to begin with. It is up to the members of the board to decide who they choose to encourage and pursue conversation with. If you choose to pursue conversation with someone who later deletes all their posts and makes the threads and your own comments a little confusing, well, it was your choice, and I don't think the staff here should override the freedom of all the members in order to prevent the possibility of poor behavior by just a few. (Gene, you liberal you! ;D)

Most BBS's do allow members to edit their posts. Although technically we could prevent this, I use it constantly for correction (yes, I know there is a previous option...) and I would not really want our members to feel they couldn't even repair an incriminating typo or word omission without an application in triplicate to the staff for help.

When people edit their posts (and I don't mean to be funny like jb did, but for real) in a way that changes content meaning, and when they delete their posts, to CYA having made a public accusation against someone or something which is apparently unfounded and unsupportable, to me this is a serious problem with "communication ethics." People can be good people, but not be real standup in this area. Unfortunately on the internet all we HAVE is communication. So people who have issues with that kind of behavior (or with other problems like twisting stuff, deliberately misunderstanding, semi-stalking, posting incomprehensibly like it's a stage, etc.) are sometimes a bit shunned by people who consider ethics of communication important. If they are not important to you, then hey, have a party. And later on if one of your festive frolickers decides to edit or remove the posts and kinda screws up the party, well, you live and learn.

I'm only one voice though. TKR has many admins and several wizops, and Eva is Wizop in this area, so I guess we'll have to hear what the others have to say to know whether a staff vote would be worth it. ;-)

PJ

 

[PJ]

It seems it needs to be determined who the posts belong to...to the poster? to TKR? Both?

The creator of materials always owns the copyright and that is the rule in every area of TKR as well.

By contributing to TKR (and ANY online place--this is standard web policy), you are giving the website/owner permission to put it here and anywhere else they choose (e.g., sometimes they may choose to have a different archives area; format something for a different later technology; print things in a newsletter; etc.).

The owner does NOT have permission to use content out of context, nor as their own, does NOT have permission to use names or personal info in any form without written permission, except what is shown on the display utilized that the person contributed the work to (such as on this board or in the galleries).

It is everybody's right to contribute here and it is everybody's right to remove their contributions. While it may inconvenience the thread and the archives, it will certainly leave them a reputation in the community that ought to prevent too much of that happening here or elsewhere in the future.

Best,
PJ

 

[Gene_Smith]

Hi PJ,

Are the archives at Firedocs of the various Stargate like bulletin board conversations currently editable by anyone who was responsible for various text therein?

Gene

 

[Gene_Smith]

I agree that occasionally someone may flip out and leave and take all their posts with them. I might add this seldom happens except when the individual comes across as ... er ... looking for a diplomatic word here .. "notably unique" to begin with. It is up to the members of the board to decide who they choose to encourage and pursue conversation with. If you choose to pursue conversation with someone who later deletes all their posts and makes the threads and your own comments a little confusing, well, it was your choice, and I don't think the staff here should override the freedom of all the members in order to prevent the possibility of poor behavior by just a few. (Gene, you liberal you! ;D)
PJ

Let me make sure I’ve got this right… You think that people should be allowed to rewrite history; cause to prevent them from doing so would be an infringement not only on their rights but the rights of all. And that I would aver differently makes ME a liberal??

Don’t make me mail you an Ann Coulter book, cause I’ll do it!!

Gene

 

[polkadotpuhjommies]

Don’t make me mail you an Ann Coulter book, cause I’ll do it!!

Wouldn't this be a festive event....having the 2 of them meet! Worth the price of admission and then some! LOL

Thanks for giving us the policy on this PJ. I looked all over the site and couldn't find anything. Since that's the policy, then those are the 'rules' and that's that unless changes are made.

I'm sure this is an isolated situation and isn't likely to happen again...well, the removal of ALL posts at any rate. I've been using this forum for almost 2 years and haven't seen anything abusive as far as removing/altering etc. and I'm sure this example will have people think twice before making any radical changes to their posts in the future.

 

[PJ]

The archives are not of a bulletin board, they are of an email discussion list. And any posts that persons requested removed during the time they were participating on the list, I did. None asked. Which greatly simplified this. ;D PJ

Are the archives at Firedocs of the various Stargate like bulletin board conversations currently editable by anyone who was responsible for various text therein? Gene

 

[PJ]

Man, Gene. You are really EASY to get! ;D ;D

(And here I thought Eric was, but you may be even easier. ;-))

PJ

 

[PJ]

Gene! I forgot to remind you that I'm only one person and if you're convincing you could easily get me outvoted.

Just remember though, this is packaged software, typical of web forums. There are limits to what can or can't be done. I can't just arbitrarily change the rules of how things work in the system when I feel like it, like I can in the Galleries.

Probably the best we could do, if the staff voted to act on the idea, is to say that someone deliberately changing or removing content in such a way as to deliberately mess up the flow of a thread, would be warned, kicked or banned depending. This should not be too severe, 'cause people need to be able to remove a post that was too ranting or emotional that they got a sanity check on. The only reasonable way to make such a rule would be to say that once something has a response to it from someone else, it's done. You could edit it to fix spelling or typos, to add material you forgot like a link or whatever, but at that point, deliberate content change/post removal would maybe disqualify someone from posting here if they can't do it in a mature and ethical fashion.

I am probably not a good judge. I am having a hard time caring right now. The issue ought to be taken up by staff more involved with the current goings-on here on the board I suppose.

Best,
PJ

 

[morgan]

the way i see it - everyones post is their own. if they feel threatened enough by them to remove them - thats kind of their perogative i guess. I mean.. it seems cruel to refuse to do it when someone has an issue. The ego is a fragile creature, none more than we should realise that. this is a place of comfort and refuge. its very sad if a thread is dismantled. perhaps someone who notices it could stick a very brief general post on what was in the deleted post. ie.. it was about such and such and so and x was said.
or perhaps it would be better to make it so posts can become anonymous? although i think that wouldnt be enough for all people in all cases, it might be enough to stop some deletions.

just a thought. personally i havent had any issues with people deleting stuff that really hacked me off. its pretty neutral.

 

[PJ]

Since people can post with made-up aliases, for all purposes this board DOES allow 'anonymity'.

I agree it's the individual's prerogative. But, that probably there should be some consequences for doing that in a negative way.

Folks remember: if when replying to someone, you click QUOTE, that puts their message (or whatever parts you don't delete) into YOUR message. They can't delete that. ;D

I wouldn't want to see endless messages in triplicate of course, that gets aggravating. But when you respond to something someone says, you *should* try to quote a 'representative sample' of what they were saying in your own message. This is good online etiquette. It also means that even if your post is seen out of context for any reason, there's no question about what you're responding to or talking about.

PJ

 

[joanie]

Don’t make me mail you an Ann Coulter book, cause I’ll do it!!

That's kind of synchronistic ("rewriting history") considering the rumors that Ann Coulter was a man in past present incarnation - (drag queen? or Arthur Coltrane?)

But really - check out "her" Adam's apple. aglump - That ain't no female body part ~~~ (imho).

just another "off topic" for a far out thread . Struck me too funny/synchronistic. I won't make it a habit. ;D

Joanie

 

[Gene_Smith]

Wow Joanie,

If that were so I can't imagine that CBS et al wouldn't be running prime time specials on it.

Gene

 

[PJ]

A kinda tragically insulting rumor though. Gosh, quite an example, a woman who is really smart, really well educated, resultingly rich, and -- oh, well of course it's not a woman, rumors say she's a man! LOL!

You must be kidding.

Even drag queens aren't as bitchy as Coulter. She's definitely female.

That's one of the things I like best about her. ;-)

PJ

 

[joanie]

You said it - she's all bitch without an ounce of actual "feminine" in her. Both the way she acts and looks make it easy for me to believe the rumor . What can I say? Just easy for me to believe.

Anyway - I figured I'd be gettin' in trouble for posting that up, but I won't comment anymore. ;D