New Fortean Times article by Jim Schnabel

[Tunde]

Whatever Happened to America's Remote Viewers ?

Written by Jim Schnabel ...

Picked up 2 copies today. Will see If i can scan to PDF tommorow.
Lots of interesting comments but nothing new really. However ARV seems to
be the only positive comments Schnabel could muster and laments How the community
really has not progressed that much and delivered so little.

Tunde

 

[Tunde]

According to Schnabel when John Alexander was contacted and asked by
US millitary officials in Bagram kabul to help Locate US Army private Bowe Bergdahl
who was kidnapped by the Taliban he turned to the current
crop of "Trained" remote viewers. The results were so bad Alexander refered
to it as "garbage" so much so he didnt even bother sending the results
to Bagram.

T

 

[Mycroft]

It was just his POV. Either he doesn't believe in it or there is another agenda.

Mycroft

 

[Marv_Darley]

According to Schnabel when John Alexander was contacted and asked by
US millitary officials in Bagram kabul to help Locate US Army private Bowe Bergdahl
who was kidnapped by the Taliban he turned to the current
crop of "Trained" remote viewers. The results were so bad Alexander refered
to it as "garbage" so much so he didnt even bother sending the results
to Bagram.

He should have sent it here and we'd have done it as a Mission. Revs would have nailed that one for sure.

 

[Tunde]

It was just his POV. Either he doesn't believe in it or there is another agenda.

Mycroft

....or he could be right either way you would need to read his article first.
There is nothing he has said that has not already been addressed here already. He was also
trained by Ingo Swann himself back in the 90's so has a good grasp on both RV's workings and
History. His book remains one of the all time classics on the subject. So it was always going to
be interesting to discover what he now feels about RV today 15 years later.

Unfortunately i agree with alot of his conclusions when it comes to addressing useful RV applications
other than teaching. There is still plenty of work to be done.

T

 

[PatMcDonald]

Small world - I remember that magazine being published from the next street over 20 years ago. Ah, the old High Pavement, Frome...

Nice to see Dennis bought the rights and kept it alive.

 

[Jon_Knowles]

Tunde wrote:
Unfortunately i agree with alot of his conclusions when it comes to addressing useful RV applications other than teaching. There is still plenty of work to be done.

I don't know that I'd call teaching RV an "application". Isn't it what you do with the training that counts?

As I've mentioned elsewhere on the forum, I keep a list of ONE20+ links to RV-related web sites. From many of them you get the feeling that all is well, even flourishing, in RVland: training continues apace, conferences are held, clients are serviced, companies are being started. Would that the reality were so. If it is so re: the latter two, it is being kept well under wraps.

Through a combination of efforts (hello Daz), there are now more RV sessions viewable online, including more recent ones, than there used to be. Of course there have always been a wealth of (mainly "non-method") sessions here on TKR.

But finding evidence of concrete applications work, e.g. a (sanitized) report or three...it isn't all that common. Some examples:

Stephan Schwartz's archaeological work.

Daz's links to FindMe reports.

Lyn Buchanan's moon base report (although there is no verification in that such a moon base has yet been built, that we know of).

Aurora's Nina Reiser report, one of the lengthiest posted online (not successful in being able to pinpoint the body; but provides a complete overview of the application of RV to a missing person). (Full disclosure: I was PM on it and wrote the report.)

The Farsight sessions and evaluations of the Many Worlds experiment (provides no evidence that many worlds are involved, IMO, among other flaws).

Is anyone aware of any new efforts that should be circulated (on FB, for example)?

It should be mentioned that there is work such as Joe McMoneagle's successful televised demos and videos, Pam Coronado's work, a recent video by Keith Harary, etc. That helps!

But overall, with so little concrete evidence of the successful application of RV available - as against the expectations and claims raised in certain quarters - it is no wonder RV hasn't made greater gains.

Jon

 

[daz]

I haven't read the article yet but I would have to agree with his comments/tone.

It pisses me off and gets me very aggravated that there is a severe lack of anything 'useful' being done with RV and that 90% of the applications and RV in general is centred around money/profit/ and gain.

Even with the alleged tens of thousands of trained remote viewers we have squat, zip, nada, nothing!

RV is nothing more than a circus of money making for a few old folks that spent a little time playing at being spies for the US government I am afraid to say.

Daz

 

[njbr]

Personally there is nothing I want more than to get into more practical side of things when it comes to remote viewing however this is much easier said than done. After about 2.5 to 3 years I feel as if my viewing is good enough to start getting more proactively involved in more established RV projects. I think people tend to get pulled towards ARV not because of the financial aspect but because it's a real word type of application that is easy to get into and can potentially have concrete results. I'd really like to get into more practical projects relating to RV such as helping to find missing persons or maybe something on the medical diagnosis side of things but to be honest, I'm not sure where to start. To my knowledge the only groups of viewers that I've come across looking to accomplish specific goals and wanting to take on viewers are those working on ARV projects.

That being said, I feel extremely grateful for the dojo and people in the community here at TKR, it's the entire reason I've been able to learn remote viewing and continue to develop as a viewer, so mad props to PJ, the moderators and all the ongoing members who continue to encourage and help others.

 

[PatMcDonald]

RV is nothing more than a circus of money making for a few old folks that spent a little time playing at being spies for the US government I am afraid to say.

Look mate, if you want to up your advertising rates, that's up to you. You have a monopoloy won by your own effort. If you choose not to exploit it, that's your choice.

If others choose to use RV for profit, that is again their choice. Carping does not make you look better, just bitter and resentful (and I've had a lot of experience at being bitter and resentful).

Also, consider this; if a certain D Morehouse hadn't gone up against his establishment, published and been damned, we would have bugger all in the way of applications, training, or knowledge of the subject.

 

[Mycroft]

It pisses me off and gets me very aggravated that there is a severe lack of anything 'useful' being done with RV and that 90% of the applications and RV in general is centred around money/profit/ and gain.

Another voice of reason, thanks Daz. I'd seen the same things in this group for the past while and it has recently grown excessive at tkr. I quit saying anything about it because I'm tired of the waling and gnashing of teeth of the minions who have enslaved themselves to the almighty $$.

It seems altruistic efforts are to be spurned and the corporate PR machines (aka 'the government') have done their job well. Religious acolytes are on the wain, while more are commercializing the 'me'.

Daz, just continue to build upon your work and those of like mind will be draw toward you, who knows in another 26,000 years the ingenious peoples who inherit the planet may be worshiping your likeness.

Mycroft

 

[NSA]

It pisses me off and gets me very aggravated that there is a severe lack of anything 'useful' being done with RV and that 90% of the applications and RV in general is centred around money/profit/ and gain.

Another voice of reason, thanks Daz. I'd seen the same things in this group for the past while and it has recently grown excessive at tkr.

Er Mycroft define excessive ??? only a handful of TKR viewers have spoken openly about using RV for money or personal financial gain on a regular basis and even fewer have published any trials or data so if anything there is a lack of interest rather than an excessive growth.

I quit saying anything about it because I'm tired of the waling and gnashing of teeth of the minions who have enslaved themselves to the almighty $$.

Hang on a second, didn't you just declare you had been sitting on the winner
of the super bowl weeks in advance :. A thread that generated quite abit of positive interest itself from ARVs here in TKR. You are complaining about something you are inadvertedly supporting so not sure i follow the logic.

It seems altruistic efforts are to be spurned and the corporate PR machines (aka 'the government') have done their job well. Religious acolytes are on the wain, while more are commercializing the 'me'.

Not everything has to be a 'conspiracy' you know. Yes there are hardly any altruistic RV efforts but there is nothing stopping people doing this if they can do it in the first place The problem is there are not enough good viewers remotely bothered, capable, trained or skilled enough to produce any useable application of RV other than financial or sports wagering. If you want to see a change....be the change.

NSA

 

[daz]

I'm not saying ARV is wrong - hell I like a good ARV trial and gamble to break the monotony of normal RV work. Its the overall focus from the general field of RV to be monetary based. people selling unproven training courses, DVDs and 'new and improved' products, making false claims, with no actual experience, trail of evidence in a continual blender of useless noise that I detest.

Remote viewing for many is purely an income generation a money machine, for others its an as yet unrealised short-cut to more income - I'd for once just like to see, read and hear or someone using and doing RV that's aim isn't in one form or another an increase in money. The universe has so many things to show us, so many secrets, with so many interesting things and people, and we as humans in our bad state of affairs have so much that RV could help with.

I do agree with T though there is a great lack of good/consistent viewers, and also project managers. In actuality Jims article was correct - we know as litle about the RV process now as we did back in the 90s when it all went public - going public did nothing more than add a money circus to RV. From which I doubt it will ever recover.

For example 8 Martinis - Im willing t work my ass off for free to publish a magazine for the RV community - to have for free. Yet do you realise how much I have to beg, borrow and steal to get enough content to put one together. Its ridiculous. Its so scant with actual Rvers and Rv projects that i may even have to consider no more issues - why because as Jim's article said - there is nothing much going on.

Daz

 

[Omega]

Greetings Tunde,

I am looking for the .pdf's

Are they still coming ?

8)

 

[Tunde]

Greetings Tunde,

I am looking for the .pdf's

Are they still coming ?

8)

will drop you a Pem mate.

T

 

[PatMcDonald]

I do agree with T though there is a great lack of good/consistent viewers, and also project managers. In actuality Jims article was correct - we know as litle about the RV process now as we did back in the 90s when it all went public - going public did nothing more than add a money circus to RV. From which I doubt it will ever recover.

For example 8 Martinis - Im willing t work my ass off for free to publish a magazine for the RV community - to have for free. Yet do you realise how much I have to beg, borrow and steal to get enough content to put one together. Its ridiculous. Its so scant with actual Rvers and Rv projects that i may even have to consider no more issues - why because as Jim's article said - there is nothing much going on.

Daz

Hmm... well, I can't promise anything overnight but that's a fair comment. You've just given me a very good idea for a project but I'm not about to blurt it out and spoil the blind. And, to build confidence in me, I think I should particapte in some TKR projects first, as a a volunteer viewer. I've got 2 training targets to finish and then I think I made some public sessions.

I hear your discomfort and I will try to help, but please have a bit of patience while I put my house in order.

 

[njbr]

I'm not saying ARV is wrong - hell I like a good ARV trial and gamble to break the monotony of normal RV work. Its the overall focus from the general field of RV to be monetary based. people selling unproven training courses, DVDs and 'new and improved' products, making false claims, with no actual experience, trail of evidence in a continual blender of useless noise that I detest.

Remote viewing for many is purely an income generation a money machine, for others its an as yet unrealised short-cut to more income - I'd for once just like to see, read and hear or someone using and doing RV that's aim isn't in one form or another an increase in money. The universe has so many things to show us, so many secrets, with so many interesting things and people, and we as humans in our bad state of affairs have so much that RV could help with.

I do agree with T though there is a great lack of good/consistent viewers, and also project managers. In actuality Jims article was correct - we know as litle about the RV process now as we did back in the 90s when it all went public - going public did nothing more than add a money circus to RV. From which I doubt it will ever recover.

For example 8 Martinis - Im willing t work my ass off for free to publish a magazine for the RV community - to have for free. Yet do you realise how much I have to beg, borrow and steal to get enough content to put one together. Its ridiculous. Its so scant with actual Rvers and Rv projects that i may even have to consider no more issues - why because as Jim's article said - there is nothing much going on.

Daz

This is great... I'd love to hop on board a well managed project with intention of the greater good... I've tried brainstorming on some project ideas but can't come up with any... the best I can come up with is maybe to derive some kind of ARV based system for locating people using GPS coordinates (or some other methodology) but I'm sure this is played out as well....

 

[PatMcDonald]

Would have to be a well managed project... snag with missing person locations is they can change as a person tries to find their own way back from being lost.

Sometimes would have to be a pretty fast loop.

 

[sonny5085]

Exciting to think about !

I would like to see a grid set up in a map co ords but interlaced with actual picture target photos !

IE: picture for a square grid on a map would be of course A unique picture unlike the other s that would populate a map
do sections at a time much like the 1arv thing is set up with yea or nea hits..
then move on to the next sections !

I was thinking of trying to implement something like this using a lotto grid as well with 4 numbers to a grid like dowsing but using photo targets to narrow down the search..

I like to delve for ideas, and I like to think about it, but my implementing is that Im just to darn lazy.

i would think that a section of 5 to 10 target photos would yield great results with finding a spot that would be hidden if anyone wishes to experiment with this, I would love to participate , but its prob stupid.


ah well, Ive seen on another note, I ve read some very lunatic postings here of late, perhaps this is one as well.

 

[Tunde]

Another unsung application of RV is Disaster Predictions.
In light of todays devastating earthquake in Japan we could do with
some sort of early warning RV Prediction System.

As Long as these predictions are not used for self promotion, scare mongering or profit.

T