RV method without automatic ideograms ?


New Member
Hi everyone,

Do some of you practice RV without using an "automatic" ideogram method in the first stage?

I'm asking this question because many methods seems to include this "automatic ideogram" in the first stage of the protocol. For myself I don't feel very easy with it. Thanks to Daz's website, I found a method described by Gary O. Langford and G. Scott Hubbard in which there's no automatic ideograms drawn immediately after contact with the target. Actually, though I haven't read a lot on RV yet, I found different RV methods have quite much in common. The one described by Langford has this a bit different that after "contact" with the target you might want to "freeze" any feeling/impression you got and then write it under the form of an ideogram (or not) which translate and synthetize this impression (some basic ideograms are given).

There's not much difference only this is done more in two steps than in one. So one get an impression from the target (shape, color, feeling) and then retranscripts that impression under a written ideogram, so maybe you could do it very quickly but there's somewhat to steps here. What I personnally understand here is that using an ideogram is useful to synthetize that impression, so you don't have necesseraly to proceed to mental verbalization to express it and thus remain in a somewhat "not analyzing state", which may allows you to maybe remains more receptive (this is just my guess ;)). Saying it differently, using ideograms allows you to record your impression quickly and in a easy way.

In other methods, for instance CRV, in the 1st stage you draw automatically and instantly an ideogram after contact with the target if I don't mistake (I have downloaded Daz's CRV method but have read it entirely yet). So that's more of a "one step" or "all in one" method. Personnally I don't feel very easy with it, that's why I'm leaning more on a "two steps" method. I'm wondering if some of you feel like me and/or practice RV without drawing "automatic ideograms" in the 1st stage?


I am an abject beginner, so fwiw... I was wondering about alternatives to CRV, so I started doing some reading to learn more about the field. One book I kept seeing references to was, Mind to Mind, by Warcollier, (written in the early part of this century) so I am reading it now... It contains interesting speculations about how psi works and some interesting experiments and stories of psi working, but it's real value for me is that it shows you just how far we've come, and how astoundingly polished and useful CRV as developed by Ingo Swann and I believe Hal Puthoff really is. I have huge respect for these guys now, and decided to learn the CRV protocol and practice it, if I could. Also, some seasoned RVers are quoted in Daz Smith's book Remote Viewing Dialogues saying something to the effect that everyone is different, different things will work for different people, and the CRV protocol is a good thing to learn, and once you master it you can refine the process to work best for yourself. Finally, part of my research and training includes watching Edward Riordan's excellent Youtube RV videos where every step of the entire session is recorded and you see what he writes, you hear what the monitor says, and you see the clay models he makes, the videos are really well done. Edward discusses CRV Stage 1 (see link below), he's a really talented viewer, and he has devoted a lot of time, practice, and thought to viewing, so in my case at least - that put to rest any doubts I had about Stage 1, and convinced me to learn CRV and then, IF, I was actually any good at it, I could consider modifying the steps to suit my particular nature, if that was warranted.
But one beginner to another - I would consider using a free database of targets like Target Monkey or Lyn Buchanan's database, and practicing all of the techniques you are considering... including CRV stage 1, if you keep at it long enough I bet you'll see which one works best for you. Take them out for a test drive and see which one you like the handling of best. And have fun, it's so exciting to actually tune into a target and feel it and see it and know it's right, you may lol.

Edward Riordan on Stage 1
Target Monkey : Daz Smith's free targets
Lyn Buchanan's free targets
Remote Viewing Dialogues
Edward Riordan's Youtube Channel (has some awesome sessions)


New Member
Hi mscir,

thanks for your advice, I'm also a beginner since I've tried RV only a few times. ;) If I was to continue RV I may have pursue the way I started, that is without writing an automatic ideogram to see how it goes...I haven't been able to practice for almost one year due to a few things that kept me busy during all this time...Time's going by so fast...Lately, I broke my ankle so I had to drop a few things and got some time to go back to RV, started reading on it again. I found the target monkey resource of Daz's website you mentionned. I found it very convenient, yesterday I did 2 trials and was quite happy with them, moreover with the second one, I guess I'll have to put it on the beginner's luck! ;) As the 3rd one I did today was a complete miss. :-[

Anyway, though I've been interested by the subject for quite some time now, I feel I don't have any particular "gift" for it and not enough motivation to stick with it without enough good results. I just did a few trials but don't feel I got some "real strong signals" coming in, maybe I'm asking too much, but I've decided to not continue anymore. Sad to say but I'm not sure any real tough investment would be rewarding the time invested...(I just speak for myself ;) )

Lately I just read two books of Joseph Mc Moneagle, actually I haven't finished the second yet. They are Mind Trek and remote viewing secrets. This second one gives some advice for RV training, if you haven't read it I surely recommend it. Going back to this stage 1 ideogram, Mc Moneagle does'nt use it (well I kow we're not of the same kind but still! ) which encouraged me to try this way...

So good luck to you with RV as for anyone here, who kindly answered me when I arrived in this forum one year ago! I understand how fascinating this is! ;)


Good Luck lorelei. Sorry to hear about your ankle. Well, RV will always be there for you, maybe when you're retired.


Do you have psi activities you can use even when you're busy? I like Lyn Buchanan's exercise of feeling the difference in the 'vibes' on either side of any doorway you go through. I get really clear feelings and a huge variety depending on what buildings I visit. Do you have fun type psi stuff that you do to keep you in touch with that part of yourself?


New Member
thanks mscir ;)
For your question, no I don't have other psi activities. I've been very interested for quite some years now in other "strange" subjects, among which ufos and reincarnation. I've been reading a lot on ufos for years but never got involved in any active research actually... I still enjoy reading or listening to some radio shows on this subject, though less frequently now. I'm currently reading a book of Ian Stevenson on reincarnation, I'm just at the beginning but it looks quite interesting. I don't have a definitive opinion on these subjects but I like to see what's been done and researched on these, and keep up to date sometimes. ;)

I've been also very interested in RV, especially with the possibility to experiment it personnally. There was a "field" that could be investigated and experimented personnally, with some possibility, at least in theory, for some applications. All of that attrated me a lot, but that was the only psi thing I got involved in (respectfully to my few trials only!). By contrast, in my day to day life, I almost never think about these strange subjects, so kind of a "normal" life I guess... ;) I like it like this, for now it wouldn't be my desire to be more involved or think about psi things on a more frequent basis. I have other hobbies which also keep me quite busy and this is altogether kind of a balance in my life I like.


New Member
Hi Lorelei,
Personally, I don't use ideograms as a matter of routine. I think I do something similar mentally, though. My first "taste" of the target is very quick and very brief. It gives me a very rough, very general and very generic feeling about the target. I sort of file that away in my mind and then I open to the target again. Each time I do this I get something different and, when everything is working correctly, the target sort of "unfolds" for me, with more precise and higher-level perceptions coming through as the session goes on.

Your description, in your first post, of the process and purpose regarding the ideogram is spot-on, I believe. That's exactly as I understand them as well.

I DO use ideograms sometimes, particularly if I get "stuck" and fail to get more perceptions or if, when I first open to the target, I get nothing. But I do not then trace the ideogram and search for feeling and movement the way most CRVers do. Instead, I just move on to the next stage and I open to the target again. So, for me, when I do use ideograms, they are mostly just a method for making target contact or for re-acquiring the target. Don


New Member
Hi Don,
thanks for your answer, what you describe in how you do RV is somewhat similar to how I began to try RV. ;) I don't feel very comfortable with the ideogram of most CRV methods, and when I was searching for RV methods, by chance I quickly stumbled on the one I mentionned before which seemed to suit me better. So I started trying like this. However, it seems most people prefer to use CRV with a quick written ideogram just after writing the target in the 1st stage?

By the way, I may in fact continue to practice RV to see how it goes... I felt a bit sorry to give up so quickly...
Mostly i use ideograms.

Sometimes, if i am feeling good in particular if i just try to let the target come to me, i can get a visual or an flash impression of the target without the ideogram.

The process that happens without the ideogram has some caveats.

First, it requires that i am feeling "strongly" intuitive. If i am not feeling it, the images dont jump out.

Second, the flash image i get is never the actual target. in fact, it might several misleading aspects about it.

if the target is a building i get a flash of a building from my memory that has some overlap with the target. but it is never the exact target. only a significant aspect of the target that is captured in hte memory-based quasi flash that i get. Once i got a visual of luxor pyramid from Las Vegas when the target was the Cheops pyramid. if the target has dog puppies, then the image might be baby sheep.

With ideograms, i can pretty much trust what is there even if i am not feeling "strong." the ideogram for land tells exactly what kind of texture of the land is going to have. for ARV type targets, ideograms are therefore more reliable.

Though, i have not worked much with the method without the ideograms so perhaps there is more to it. however, for the time being, i am sticking to CRV....