pjrv : Messages : 1?84-1470 of 4038 
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#1?84
 	From: Karl Boyken #1?88

Date: Fri Nov 15, ?00? ?:51 pm
Subject: Re: A fun evening 	dennanm



Hey Karl,

> I gave a remote viewing presentation to the Quad Cities chapter
> of the Institute for Noetic Sciences last night.

That sounds cool.  Good for you.  Always nice to have someone reasonable
representing RV.  Rare, but nice, lol.

> I think I might have made a mistake in the way I targeted the
> sessions.  I brought with me a pool of five targets, each
> sealed in its own envelope.  I knew what the entire pool was,
> but not which target was in which envelope.  At the gathering,
> I randomly selected a target for each session.  It seemed like
> a number of people were hitting on other targets in the pool,
> though.  I'm thinking maybe I should have selected the actual
> targets I was going to use beforehand and left the unused ones
> at home.

Unless you're doing rank analysis or ARV, I wouldn't use multiple pics, and
the fact that you thought of all of them as 'targets' is another issue.  But I
understand that if you thought you might have them do some targets and
didn't know how many, that you would want to bring some.  The best way to
avoid "potential" issues would be to come up with targets you have NOT
seen, have someone else choose them.  And don't open any but the one that
is feedback.  At least then you don't have someone standing there with the
viewers who has the conglomerate of 5 targets in his head (and physiology? )
for transfer through whatever means non-intentional.

> There seems to be a lot of interest in remote viewing and psi in
> general.  A woman from the local library came up afterward and
> asked if I'd speak at her adult education program.  They'd
> conducted a survey of topics people would be interested in, and I
> was surprised to see a whole list of esoteric subjects, remote
> viewing being one of them.

Very cool.  Let us know how that goes if you speak there.

I get a really surprising number of visits and email from my little website,
even
when it hadn't been updated in years and still, is quite dull visually compared
to most web media and has zero deliberate promotion.  On the bright side,
most the email is thanking me fervently for being sane, rather than
questioning if I am, lol.  (Well except those who read "Bewilderness", who
often write me saying things like, "...they have medication for that, you know."
Ha! Ha!? )

It's interesting to me that there is such interest in something which alas,
publicly, at this point, still has so little demonstration...

PJ

	
#1?89
 	From: Karl Boyken #1?97
 	From: Richard Krankoski 
Date: Fri Nov 15, ?00? 9:07 pm
Subject: Re: A fun evening 	Rich_crv



> Moderator's note: Everything is a learning
> experience.  I bet you did a great job there.
> Give enough of these talks and all the details
> will get hammered out I imagine!

Right on, get in enough practice and maybe you can run the next hands on project
at the next conference, one that might work out.

Rich

	
#130?
 	From: Karl Boyken #131?
 	From: "Karl Boyken"  That is so funny, my enthusiasm for RV
> just ran off screaming into the night.
> I think I can coax it back if I reassure
> it you were JUST KIDDING.  lol.  PJ

> > Maybe we could all become RV missionaries.  Say "Amen!"

	
#1305
 	From: Karl Boyken  Rich wrote:
> Right on, get in enough practice and maybe
> you can run the next hands on project at
> the next conference, one that might work out.

	
#1?90
 	From: "Viv" 
Date: Fri Nov 15, ?00? 4:13 pm
Subject: Re: A fun evening 	eclecticviv



Hi Karl:

I think it's wonderful you had a great time doing the very
thing that is most likely to bring RV to the majority as a
creditable, legitimate skill.

In the last 4 years, since my interest turned to RV, I've
found some folks overly concerned about bringing RV to
the public as a usable technic.  IMO, the best and most
likely way this will succeed, is to do what you did, having
a fun evening.

I'd like to see more people having fun evenings in the way
you have described in your post

Viv*

	
#1?93
 	From: Bill Pendragon 
Date: Fri Nov 15, ?00? 7:?3 pm
Subject: Re: A fun evening (displacement? ) 	docsavagebill



Hi Karl,

Glad you had a good evening teaching.

I went to a retreat with the Musical Church group in
?000 and they were all interested  in RV.. So I had
them all do ARV on the upcomming election election.
The Gore Target was a statue of a black cat with tail
curled around a golden obelisk. All of the people that
tried ( about 10? ) nailed  that target..many were
extremely clear and precise. Our minister (an 80 year
old very intuitive Afro-American? ) drew nearly an exact
replica. I was SURE Gore would win after that.. at
least 10 ARV'ers  got  him, how could he lose?. And
they were all very excited about RV at that point.
Well you know what happened....and after the election,
most everyone interpreted the RV as a total
failure..despite what I thought was some great if
displaced..viewing.

Best Regards,

Bill

	
#1?95
 	From: Karl Boyken  The Gore Target was a statue of a black cat with tail
> curled around a golden obelisk. All of the people that
> tried ( about 10? ) nailed  that target..many were
> extremely clear and precise. Our minister (an 80 year
> old very intuitive Afro-American? ) drew nearly an exact
> replica.

	
#1?96

Date: Sat Nov 16, ?00? 1?:07 am
Subject: Re: Dreams & displacement 	dennanm



Howdy Doc,

> The Gore Target was a statue of a black cat with tail
> curled around a golden obelisk. All of the people that
> tried ( about 10? ) nailed  that target..many were
> extremely clear and precise. Our minister (an 80 year
> old very intuitive Afro-American? ) drew nearly an exact
> replica. I was SURE Gore would win after that..
> [snip]
> ... after the election,
> most everyone interpreted the RV as a total
> failure..despite what I thought was some great if
> displaced..viewing.

Now this strikes me as interesting.  Maybe you could say it's wishful thinking
even on a psychic level -- if you knew the targets, them pulling the options and
desired end result from you, for example.  But that's cosmic speculation at
best.
:-? )

I'm thinking about something that reminds me of this.  In 1995 in Seattle, I had
this dream, I tried to find it in my dream journal but I need to get the old one
off
the other PC.  Anyway, I can't remember who ran in the election back in '96, but
way prior to even primaries or candidates, I had a clear dream of watching TV
and seeing that a given man had won the presidency.  This was repeated like to
make sure I got it.  I never watched the news around then, and wasn't even sure
who the guy was though I'd heard the name.  Turned out he was a senator or
whatever but he'd made no such intention of even running.  Well, he did end up
leaving his job and running for pres, so I figured, well that is quite a future
detail
from the dream, he is probably going to win.  But he didn't.

I can't figure it out, I often have seemingly prophetic dreams, which may
include
aspects that come to be valid, yet in many cases my end result is the exact
_opposite_ of what comes to be.  Makes me wonder if the "polarities" are as
confused without enough left-brain as left/right are.

A note of weird dream and future event humor, in a way: back in '94 I had this
dream when the asteroids etc. were hitting Jupiter, that I was there, like in
some
alternate reality, people somewhat like us, and a fragment hit right near the
house where I was, and we ran outside, and the weirdest thing about it was this
sort of "weird dust", and it turned out the dust was sentient it was an
energetic
life form that sort of "hitches rides" on comets and such, and so they get to
lots
of different places.  There was a lot more that had to do with the behavior of
the
energetic identities that we perceived as "weird dust-like stuff". Well this was
eons ago.

Today I got a cc from a friend of an article, quoting in part:

> { "Two Australian scientists say they've found evidence of a
> parallel universe within our own Solar System. When the
> Near-Shoemaker space probe landed on the Eros asteroid,
> scientists could see craters where it had been hit by "mirror
> matter."" [big snip] In October ?000, the Near-Shoemaker
> spacecraft touched down on the 8 by 8 by ?0 mile Eros asteroid.
> This was the first time a probe had landed on an asteroid and it
> revealed that Eros has many strange features, such as
> flat-bottomed craters filled with strange bluish dust. Foot
> thinks small objects containing mirror matter could have struck
> the asteroid and left behind these odd scars."  }

This immediately reminded me of my '94 dream.  Strange!  I wonder if my
feedback today has affected my dream then?  lol.  That sort of thinking really
boggles the mind... hey I bet they brought some of that "strange bluish dust"
back to earth with them.  Now they've done it.  LOL.

PJ

	
#1300
 	From: "Sharon Webb" 
Date: Sat Nov 16, ?00? 1?:31 am
Subject: Re: Dreams & displacement 	sharwebb_3051?



Palyne,

Ever have these as sudden "knowings?"

Back in 197? when Nixon was president, I was wondering who the next democratic
president would be.  Instantly the name came: Carter.  And I thought, "who the
hell is Carter?"  :-? )

Sharon
sharwebb...t
www.fractalus.com/sharon

> way prior to even primaries or candidates,
> I had a clear dream of watching TV
> and seeing that a given man had won the
> presidency.

	
#1306
 	From: "Pame" #1311

Date: Sun Nov 17, ?00? 8:0? pm
Subject: Re: Dreams & displacement 	dennanm



Hi Pame,

> If you could, Then check that person's
> susceptibility to influence and ask
> why they did what they did.

If we could nail things down so easily, that might work, but I don't
know that we can.  What if the combined weight of all consciousness
decides what happens and doesn't.  What if the individual
consciousness of every single person decides what aspect of reality
they experience as 'real' decides what happens and what doesn't. If
time doesn't exist, so future viewing is possible, then how can we
assume there is some (linear? ) cause-and-effect for what happens and
doesn't?  How do we know, in fact, that in actuality all of reality
is not created sort of 'after-the-fact' in some obscure way, instead
of from the other side (prior to? )?

> When is a peaceful person an aggressive
> person or an aggressive person
> peaceful?

Seth has some interesting comments on aggression.  He says natural
aggression is real and positive, but that we have twisted aggression
into being correlated with violence, dominance, bullying.  He points
out that every proactive attempt to do anything is aggression.
Whether you are cooking dinner, cleaning up your neighborhood,
standing up to sing for your church, etc.

> My point is , that the future of the
> world is not set in stone

Good heavens, I hope not.  It would seem rather fatalistic to believe
it was.  I have some issue with the "free will" concept -- I believe
free will exists -- yet it sometimes seems to conflict with other
equally interesting theories.

> Or if a solution was wanted or believed could be had.

You are right that whether a person believes the future is
changeable, is probably highly correlated to whether they WANT it to
be changeable.

PJ

	
#1384

Date: Wed Nov ?0, ?00? 4:09 pm
Subject: Posthypnotic Reality (was Dreams & displacement? ) 	dennanm



> Pame wrote:
> > If you could, Then check that person's
> > susceptibility to influence and ask
> > why they did what they did.

I actually wanted to respond to this with something totally different
but forgot earlier...

When I was really into hypnosis, the thing that torqued my psychology
most (beyond past-life regressions that is? ) was this ability to give
a post-hypnotic command with amnesia.  The reason it was intriguing
wasn't just because the person would do it, without remembering they
had been instructed to.  It was because no matter HOW BIZARRE IT WAS,
they always had a reason!

I mean, if you suggest that in the middle of a conversation a person
will jump up, run around their chair three times, sit down and take
off their shoe and pound it on your desk, they will do it, and when
you say, "Why did you do that?" they say, "I had a rock in my shoe."
All their behavior is perfectly rational to them.

It just made me wonder: did their psychology give them the "assumed
experience" of the rock in the shoe so their linear mind would have a
context for their behavior?

Or did their mind retroactively invent the 'reasoning' of what came
before?

It makes me wonder about RV that way too.  Today I did a little photo
target and had this hard ideogram and (damn it!? ) I deliberately
refrained from writing down what felt obvious because it was TOO
obvious and too much like other sessions, especially this one from a
couple months ago on a lighthouse, so I felt like I was fabricating
it.  (Hello.  The target was a lighthouse.  SHEESH!  When will I ever
learn?!? )

Anyway, just re-reading Pame's post made me think, how do we know
that when we look at data from a session AFTER feedback, and we say
to ourselves, "OH yes! It makes perfect sense now!  I felt like this
and that and it exactly matches the target, I just didn't
understand." How do we know that our minds are not retroactively
inventing the "reasoning" behind why we did what we did?

Not that I worry about this, a person could obviously tie themselves
up about such things, I am just very curious about it, as I'm
interested in how the mind works.

How do we know that most of reality isn't actually organized and
created-in-context AFTER it happens by our mind, so although one
might THINK there is only the "ever-present", in fact, maybe we are
literally living slightly offset into the future.

PJ

	
#1470
 	From: "Eva" 
Date: Fri Nov ??, ?00? 8:11 pm
Subject: Re: Posthypnotic Reality (was Dreams & displacement? ) 	k9caninek9



> PJ wrote:
> if you suggest that in the middle of
> a conversation a person
> will jump up, run around their chair
> three times, sit down and take
> off their shoe and pound it on your desk,
> they will do it, and when
> you say, "Why did you do that?" they
> say, "I had a rock in my shoe."
> All their behavior is perfectly rational to them.

LOL! That is soooo hilarious!

> Today I did a little photo
> target and had this hard ideogram
> and (damn it!? ) I deliberately
> refrained from writing down what
> felt obvious because it was TOO
> obvious and too much like other
> sessions, especially this one from a
> couple months ago on a lighthouse,
> so I felt like I was fabricating
> it.  (Hello.  The target was a lighthouse.
> SHEESH!  When will I ever learn?!? )

I have soo learned that if I find myself 'daydreaming' about some
previous feedback in a session, that I should always write that down
cuz there is a reason for it.  Nothing happens by accident, no many
how many times my conscious mind wants to make up excuses to the
contrary.

> Not that I worry about this, a person
> could obviously tie themselves
> up about such things, I am just very
> curious about it, as I'm
> interested in how the mind works.

Yeah, I've thought about that too.  But I figure there is no way to
escape it either way and I can't think of why it would hurt anything
either way (as long as you don't get pathologically delusional or
anything? ) so I gave up on it.

> How do we know that most of reality isn't
> actually organized and
> created-in-context AFTER it happens by our
> mind, so although one
> might THINK there is only the "ever-present",
> in fact, maybe we are
> literally living slightly offset into the future.

Or maybe there just is no time and so you are hypothesizing about an
illusion to start with.

-E

	
#1309
 	From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Sun Nov 17, ?00? 1?:47 am
Subject: Re: Dreams & displacement 	maliolana



Aloha Sharon,

Yes this has happened to me several times...the first time was when I was
18 and knew that our governor of califoria...would one day be
president...(who we were trying to get kicked out of his position as
governor cause he was an A-hole...with a petition drive? ) ...His name
happened to be Ronald Reagan...I all of a sudden knew he would be
president one day...I told all  my friends... just to have someone that
knew...but they all thought I was completely nuts... to think that the
whole country would be that stupid...well I wasn't...and the country
was...At least about that......but at least I knew his name...and who
he was...Yours is really trippy...

Love & Light & Laughter
Mali'o...aka...Dawna

	
#1?98
 	From: "Sharon Webb" 
Date: Fri Nov 15, ?00? 7:39 pm
Subject: Re: A fun evening (displacement? ) 	sharwebb_3051?



Bill,

Don't forget that Gore won the popular vote.

And there is still some question as to whether any of that was "displaced" or
not.  :-? )

Sharon
sharwebb...t
www.fractalus.com/sharon

	
#1315
 	From: Bill Pendragon 
Date: Mon Nov 18, ?00? 4:?? pm
Subject: Re: A fun evening (displacement? ) and Harry Potter 	docsavagebill



Hi Sharon,

Well I of course rationalized it that way.. G.

Off topic..but the new Harry POtter movie was terrific
****** stars out of 5. Interestingly in the next two
books JK Rowling makes fun of the teachers of
divination at Hogwarts.. indicating that is one
magical skill that is highly overarated... in her
opinion ..The the teacher of divination always making
predictions that were more suggestions to pour
Harry... I wonder what her take on RV is??

Bill

-----------------------------
Moderator's note: the book was pretty hilarious in that regard, wasn't it?!  But
finally she DID come through with something legit -- and didn't even remember
doing it.  That was like the ultimate humor.  That reminds me there is a very
silly movie that natural psychics might love called "Second Sight". The guy who
was "Balki" on perfect strangers is the psychic, and John -- um, what's his
name, anyway he was on "Night Court".  It's really a lighthearted sort of show.
The psychic has a 'spirit guide' who is an irate jewish guy who got run over
when his wife sent him out for ice cream one night, LOL!  -- PJ

	
#1318
 	From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Mon Nov 18, ?00? 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: A fun evening (displacement? ) and Harry Potter 	maliolana



Aloha PJ,

I saw that movie ...it was hilarious...

> That reminds me there is a very silly movie that
> natural psychics might love called "Second Sight".

Love & Light & Laughter
Mali'o...aka...Dawna

	
#1301
 	From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Sat Nov 16, ?00? 3:17 am
Subject: Re: A fun evening (displacement? ) 	maliolana



Aloha Karl,

I agree...far out!...good for you Karl!......
It's great to see more of the Rving folks get some
recognition...Keep up the good work...

PS...Perhaps there was a reality shift on that ARV
thing at your church Bill?

Love & Light & Laughter
Mali'o...aka...Dawna

	
#138?

Date: Wed Nov ?0, ?00? 3:57 pm
Subject: ARV (just playing around? ) 	dennanm



What if, once every month or two, we picked whatever was going on in
the world that might be worth guessing ahead of time -- not for
money, just to know -- sports, elections, whatever -- and I set it up
like ARV and the folks on RV Oasis/pjrv if they wished, could do a
session. The actual "outcome intent" would not be blind.  So if it's
an election, we'd know the ARV was aimed toward the outcome of the
election.  But of course, the potential targets chosen would be
totally blind.  What do you guys think?

PJ

	
#1396
 	From: Bill Pendragon 
Date: Wed Nov ?0, ?00? 7:?8 pm
Subject: Re: ARV (just playing around? ) 	docsavagebill



I'm in!

Bill

> What if, once every month or two, we picked whatever
> was going on in
> the world that might be worth guessing ahead of time

	
#1407
 	From: "Scott Ellis" 
Date: Wed Nov ?0, ?00? 9:55 pm
Subject: Re: ARV (just playing around? ) 	scottrver



> What if, once every month or two, we picked whatever was going on in
> the world that might be worth guessing ahead of time --

I can do an occasional one.  If you'd like a second opinion for
scoring sessions I could help too.  I HIGHLY recommend using separate
target sets for each viewer or else it can be a waste of time IMO.
Also you should publish some sessions along with feedback - at least
the hits.

The fun part will be picking the questions.  Anyone have suggestions?

Scott

	
#1408
 	From: "Nita Hickok" 
Date: Wed Nov ?0, ?00? 1:5? pm
Subject: Re: ARV (just playing around? ) 	nitahickok



Hi PJ

I think it sounds interesting. I'm in.

Nita

> What if, once every month or two, we picked whatever was going on in
> the world that might be worth guessing ahead of time