pjrv : Messages : 380?-3806 of 4038 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/380??? )
?006/07/01 16:1?:48

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#380?
 	From: TaraMori...
Date: Thu Jan ??, ?004 7:0? am
Subject: Re: Dreaming of a Gate 	mahamati8



Pj,
Your dream sounds as if you were reading my emails yesterday. I had two
threads I was reading -- one on the Biblical phrase regarding the camel going
more
easily through the eye of a needle and the other was called 'the gateless
gate'.
Top that off with some strange thoughts coming to mind last night about the
Jews ... with Hitler and the Tibetans sharing some understanding,
misinterpretation of that esoteric knowledge on Hitler's part, am me sitting her
seeing
it through his understanding (that was weird for me? ).

Meanwhile you were dreaming....

Maybe I was reading email and thinking too loudly.... but more likely
there's something in the collective awareness we tuned into. It's pretty
interesting, whatever it is.

Tamra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

	
#3803
 	From: "Elizabeth Hambrook" 
Date: Thu Jan ??, ?004 4:41 pm
Subject: Re: Dreaming of a Gate 	ozblueriver



Hi PJ,

part of this dream......the bits about the Jewish structure, the gate, the eye
of the needle etc are very similar to something Fortune was telling us one day.
She said there is a 'gate' or portal or something that has been hidden from the
world. She said it's used to get somewhere in space I think.

cheers Liz

---------------------------
Hi Liz! If I was in that 'us', I don't recall it.  Interesting.  I'm pretty sure
I subconsciously know something about that, just don't really remember it.  Just
seems so odd I'd be dreaming about it; it's not like one of my interests or
anything. :-? )  PJ

	
#3806
 	From: Penny Zingery 
Date: Thu Jan ??, ?004 7:55 pm
Subject: Re: Dreaming of a Gate 	pzingery



Let me take a shot at this... At the end, regarding how you feel about
Arabs and Jews and the mess the world is in, is that you'd really rather
not think about it...  You even mentioned the word "avoid."  The
building of the gate never matched up with the road... the gate faced
the wrong way... your father was driving away from the area...

Here are some other things that came to mind.  Gates are a passage.  A
way to get to something, or an access, or an entrance, or a passage, or
a portal.  But, the path from the road to the gate to the building
aren't an easy one.  You stand there wondering what it all means,
looking at the "old road."  (I feel this way, metaphorically, when I'm
going through a change of some kind, and don't know how to get to where
I want to get, or if there's some anxiety related to the "old road."? )

I think the girl in the store is you. But you're trying to leave... and
are told that you need to stay, as she's going to be open, and
vulnerable.  (And remember, this is your dream. So, you're actually
telling yourself that, I'd think.? )  And the store is ready for
business... aren't you getting ready to start a new project soon? And
you mentioned something about the gate would bring on some huge
problem... and that the structure held something more like an "idea" or
a practice or something.  And you also mention that the building "is
quite some distance from a road, as if it's off the beaten path a bit.
Nobody else pays much attention to it, it's not really a secret, more an
out of sight, out of mind thing for the rest of the world..."

And wars and conflict and Jews and Arabs might represent some kind of
struggle that you're having.  Or, some kind of problem that might occur,
according to a decision you're made.

Yes, I think this dream is more about you, rather than Arabs or Jews.
  Some anxiety about your new project, or something connected to it.  For
what it's worth.

Penny

----------------------
My 'new' project is actually a novel; coming up with ideas, whether to use old
ones, whether to follow this writer road that I used to think I would eons ago.
Maybe there is something there.

Actually, this is great.  You guys are all really insightful!  I didn't expect
to get so much great stuff to think on.  I'd have been happy with a couple
little notes--instead I feel like I got a joint therapy session, thanks! LOL!

PJ

pjrv : Messages : 3800-3809 of 4038 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3800?? )
?006/07/01 16:13:00

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#3800
 	From: "pjgaenir" 
Date: Thu Jan ??, ?004 10:4? am
Subject: Dreaming of a Gate 	pjgaenir



I am often fascinated by dream symbology, even though with my own, I
so seldom have a clue what to make of it.

I am really disinterested in politics for awhile now, and don't even
read or watch or listen to the news, I don't read posts on politics
that I see on lists, nothing.  Just not in the mood I guess.  Yet
last night I had a three-part dream, which relates to politics...
sort of.  It's so offbeat I thought I'd share it. Maybe someone else
will be more attuned to symbolic meaning than I am.

Part 1: These people I think of as 'the jews' (I never think of
people like that, so that alone is odd? ) have a structure.  It is
visible on the outside like a church or something, yet has something
secret inside, not an object, more like a practice or an "idea" or
something.  The building is not very big.  It is quite some distance
from a road, as if it's off the beaten path a bit.  Nobody else pays
much attention to it, it's not really a secret, more an out of sight,
out of mind thing for the rest of the world.

The jews decide (and I haven't got a clue why, this is just what the
dream had? ) to build a gate.  They build it up near the road, not too
far from the road.  But the road actually goes past it, behind it,
and it is 90 degrees turned, facing away from the side of the road.
The so-called gate actually straddles "the OLD road" instead, one
that used to be a dirt path, that leads to their structure.

I don't understand in the dream why they don't call it a gateway. In
my opinion, a gate is something that has a closable door on it. But
this doesn't. It's made of stone, it's thick, it's rectangle on the
outside and it's an arch on the inside.  But they keep calling it a
gate.

I also don't understand what the point of it is.  There is basically
nothing between the gate and the structure except a path, and even
the path isn't actually clear--it's not a straight path.  In other
words, if you started standing in the gate, and walked down the 'old
road', you'd have to walk for a bit, then hang a right, and then
another right coming back up to the side, to reach the structure.
Although 'the jews' building it had this concept that the gate 'led
to' this structure... or the idea in it... or something like that, it
didn't physically, at least not so obviously as you might expect, so
maybe the connection between them was conceptual instead.

So they have built this big thick stone gate, square on the outside
and arched on the inside, and I stare at it. There is some part of me
that feels turbulent about this.  That feels the gate near the road,
somehow, even though I can't see any logical or physical reason why,
is going to bring on some huge problem.  The problem relates to the
people that traverse the road, and other people in general, and their
relationship with the jews.

Part ?.  I find myself at a retail store, which is supposed to be
open as it's business hours, but it is closed and dark.  The store
has a front and back door, and lots of merchandise inside.  Somehow
connected with the store or its contents is the color--or concept--of
purple, or some form of the color purple (like violet or lavender or
something? ).  I go around to the back, and I get in somehow, and I am
in the manager's office, behind the store.  There is nobody there,
and I wonder why.

I realize to myself that although the day before was a holiday, or
one just passed, that today is not, and there is no good reason the
store wouldn't be open. I decide to write a note to the manager and
leave.  But just as I am doing so, an older man who is the owner and
a young woman who is an employee both come in.

He is just getting something and turning to leave, and I am leaving
also.  He tells me that I can't leave, because she will open and work
the store through the day, but I can't leave her alone during closing
time.  My sense is that she will be vulnerable during that time, at
night, but I don't know why.  All I know is that it has something to
do with the darn "gate" they built.

Part 3.  I'm in a car with most of my family, and my father is
driving.  We are specifically driving away from that area.  I hear
myself tell my father that I am glad to be getting away, and that I
hope the conflict between the arabs and the jews will not be
exploding soon, but I feel that it will, and that the gate has
something to do with this.

That's all to the dream.

I could swear that somewhere, somewhen, I have heard something... I
don't know what, though... about a gate. When I awoke, I had
something in my head, this will sound stupid, about camels.  I
thought about it awhile, and concluded I think this relates to some
verse in the bible about a camel going through an ... eye of a
needle?... but that the needle related to the gate.  Or something.
Now this is dream logic when half awake so is probably really
fractured, just thought I'd mention it.

I actually assume the dream has something to do with me, not the
arabs and jews, since my primary energy investment in those politics
is avoiding knowing anything about it... to me it seems like an
unsolvable mess determined to try and lead the world into WW3 if we
don't get there just fine on our own without them, sigh!  But maybe
there is some overlay on both.

PJ

	
#3804
 	From: Karl Boyken 
Date: Thu Jan ??, ?004 4:46 pm
Subject: Re: Dreaming of a Gate 	kboyken



If I look at your dream through the lens of my own ideas about what the
elements of it might mean, I see it this way:  First, I have an old spiritual
belief structure that I seldom think about.  It's associated with some old
energy that is more concerned with the letter of the law than with the spirit.

The structure contains some kind of inner meaning that I've forgotten.  I've
created some kind of control over this structure, something that regulates my
access to it, but it seems silly, pointless.  The energy here is so concerned
with the "right" way to do things that it doesn't realize there's a more direct
way to access this structure.  I have this feeling that this whole situation is
going to cause some kind of problem for me, related to movement, mobility,
maybe the ability to be mentally mobile and agile, not stuck.

Next, I'm by another structure inside me that should be full of stuff I can
use, full of ideas, maybe.  It should be open, vibrant, but instead, it's all
dark and shadowy and closed off.  Purple makes me think of royalty--richness,
power, grandeur.  I find a back way into this structure, into the area where
some part of me should be managing all this, but it's empty, maybe neglected.
I finally do encounter some aspects of myself that work with this wealth of
energy here.  They don't want me to divert my attention from this space,
because it's vulnerable right now.

Finally, I'm with old family energy, ideas, relationships, and we're moving
away from this area, and I feel relief.  I feel there's going to be some kind
of conflict here, and I don't want any part of it.

The Biblical passage about the camel and the needle is a saying of Jesus:  it's
easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a wealthy
person to enter the kingdom of heaven.  You could take that as saying that
concern for material things distracts a person from the spiritual.

I'm not sure how I'd boil this all down.  I guess there's some potential inner
conflict dealing with old beliefs, old habits, old ways of thinking or doing.
There's something hidden, some old secret.  Trying to get at it the old way
seems pointless.  I feel some responsibility for this situation, but I want to
escape it, put it behind me and not deal with it.

I'll give this some more thought.

Karl

--------------------------
Wow Karl.  Those are some really interesting ideas you have there!  Thanks for
the ideas on that.  Real food for thought, isn't it. :-? )  PJ

	
#3808
 	From: Karl Boyken 
Date: Fri Jan ?3, ?004 8:55 am
Subject: Re: Dreaming of a Gate 	kboyken



Well, I can only see the dream via my own subconscious prejudices and
symbology, so anything I have to say about it might be way off base.  One
interesting thing you might do to work with this dream would be to draw
pictures of some of the main aspects of the dream, like the gate, the road and
the building, and take note of your thoughts and emotions while you draw and
while you look at the finished pictures.  You could try to make some kind of
physical representation of the scene and explore that, again noting your
feelings and thoughts.  You might try relaxing and bringing the dream back into
your consciousness, and then questioning various parts of the dream, ask them
what's going on, what they're all about.  Put on some purple clothing and go to
a store and see what that provokes in you.  Go to a synagogue.  Lots of
experiential things like that that you could try.

Karl

> Wow Karl.  Those are some really interesting ideas you have there!  Thanks
> for the ideas on that.  Real food for thought, isn't it. :-? )  PJ

--
Karl Boyken
kboyken...t
http://www.avalon.net/~kboyken/

We dance 'round in a ring and suppose,
while the Secret sits in the middle and knows.
    --Robert Frost

	
#3809
 	From: Karl Boyken 
Date: Fri Jan ?3, ?004 8:47 am
Subject: Re: Dreaming of a Gate 	kboyken



One other thing came to mind about your dream.  Matthew 7:13-14 says this:

       Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is]
       the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in
       thereat:  Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which
       leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

This seems similar to the passage in Mark about the camel through the eye of
the needle.  So, again, the gate may have something to do with this idea of
difficulty in achieving some kind of spiritual goal.  But the dreamer of the
dream seems to be able to see that all this difficulty is unnecessary, that
there is in fact a direct route.  So, maybe the gate is some kind of limiting
fear or belief about how the spiritual journey must be difficult.  Maybe the
dream is saying, "You're making this all too hard; it's really simple."

Karl

> The Biblical passage about the camel and the needle is a saying of Jesus:
it's
> easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a
wealthy
> person to enter the kingdom of heaven.  You could take that as saying that
> concern for material things distracts a person from the spiritual.

--
Karl Boyken
kboyken...t
http://www.avalon.net/~kboyken/

We dance 'round in a ring and suppose,
while the Secret sits in the middle and knows.
    --Robert Frost

	
#3807
 	From: Bill Pendragon 
Date: Thu Jan ??, ?004 7:48 pm
Subject: Re: Dreaming of a Gate 	docsavagebill



But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them,
Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches
to enter into the kingdom of God! It is easier for a
camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a
rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 10.?4

Hi PJ, I've heard that there used to be a walled city
with a very narrow gate called "the eye of the
needle". For a camel to enter the gate it had to  have
all its baggage( riches? ) removed.

Perhaps this is metaphorical.. Asking  what going on
in you represents the "Jews" and "Arabs" in the story.
  Also the gate is on the "old" road .. Indicating that
this is some old "thing" that you thought was very
important to do.. but now you are not so sure that you
must drop all your baggage to enter.. and what is the
baggage you must lose?

Bill

-----------------
That's interesting Bill.  Well I have quite an inventory of baggage, lol!--where
would I begin. ;-? )  PJ