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Archivist: Palyne PJ Gaenir (PJRV, Palyne, Firedocs RV, TKR and the Dojo Psi.)

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pjrv : Messages : 627-636 of 4038


From: "PJ Gaenir" Date: Wed Sep 4, 2002 12:46 pm Subject: Reality bleedthroughs. dennanm (This is more about personal stuff and spontaneous psi and only peripherally RV, so those not into that use the delete key now.) -------------------- Hi you guys, Though my intentions on how much practice I'd do are laughably far from reality (is there _anyone_ who actually practices as much as they wish they did, I wonder? I'm in awe, if so...), I have at least made substantial progress in my life in the last couple of months. After pretty much working 90+ hrs/wk from the age of 19 until a few months ago (with a brief break for a problem pregnancy and my kid's infant stage), I have actually taken it down to somewhere near normal. Have spent much more time with my little girl. Made a big effort to dedicate a place in my house to a quiet space for myself, and for the first time in 7 years have been spending some time on myself regularly. Praying more regularly as well. I'm not religious in the traditional sense but still feel that if I pray to God, the long variety of options which might be the real answer, ranging from the guy on a cloud to the higher self to the oneness of infinity (...) knows who I'm talking to, and it helps. For several weeks I've had some 'symptoms' both in and out of RV that disturbed me. Brought back memories of the immense chaos in my mind, body and life years ago that occurred after a kundalini experience did some electroshock therapy on my chakras I guess. The 'disturbance' part was very subtle, not-quite-subconscious, but enough to make me avoid my sitting room (and RV) entirely. I only remember one thing. I know there are others but I clearly remember thinking last week, "Ah yeah, I'd forgotten about those things happening; boy I'm really in denial apparently." And now I remember that, but I forget what it is I've forgotten. LOL. The thing that I remember is what I call "bleedthrough." In metaphysics, this is conscious but below-surface-thoughts, awareness of one's simultaneous exist in other focii -- some might say, 'other aspects of self' -- depends on the field of theory. In traditional psychology it is a classic symptom of schizophrenia (though in the 'labeled' condition things are usually far more extreme and with several complicating factors added). It is something that occurs with just about every highly psychic person I've ever met in my life, so I'm not worried about the label part. It's just very... distracting. And it tends to create some turbulence in the 'identity' area which is tough for the ego. Not consciously, but subsconsciously. Were I not "paying attention to myself" and being 'honest with self' I might not even notice. For those who've never experienced this, it is sort of like realizing that you are subtly, consciously-dreaming an entire, linear other life. If you tune into it (some can, some only sometimes, some only accidentally -- often conscious realization 'shuts off' the stream), you can even experience it like you're there, but in the subtle sense more like a regular 1st person dream than a fully fleshed experience. It's just another life. Someone else's. Nothing special. But it has this quality to it of "steady streaming" as if it is a faucet you are dipping under, or a steady output radio frequency you are tuning in. It is 'cohesive' on its own. It is not like something one is imagining, although if you snap out of "accidentally falling into it", you might think you were sort of accidentally dreaming or daydreaming. But it is like its own solid band of reality. In RV, I usually hear it first. 'Sensed as sound'. I will feel I am in state, and I will "be quiet inside and listen to myself" for data, and there it is like a TV someone left on, just loud enough to interfere with trying to do math or pick up subtle impressions, but not quite loud enough to pick the words and sounds out of clearly. If I tune in (which usually requires more 'letting go into it' than actually deliberately aiming into it), I can often follow the sound as literal 'sound' even if I cannot yet fully "be there" in the experience. We are talking about really boring stuff though. Like someone's life as they go about a day, buy a paper, get on a bus, talk about trivia. It is not anything cosmic. I gripe in my journal you'd think if I were going to be 'tuning in' some other personality, the least it could do is be an INTERESTING personality. ;-) On occasion I'll get a super-loud bleedthrough of some sound or phrase, like I'm minding my own business doing something else and suddenly this loud (literally 'sound', not just 'sensed as sound') something will come through. Again, just daily trivial mundane stuff and often partial at that. Joyce in his "Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" -- an interesting book which I disagree with the conclusions of, but appreciate the novel thoughts in anyway -- quoted a seemingly normal man who became schizophrenic as saying something like, "In my head, it's like there's all these people and places I've never seen before." I laughed when I read that, about 8 years ago, as it was literally an exact quote from my own journals back then. The primary difference was I was not so afraid that it promptly became, as it did for the guy in the book, 'a commanding voice' suggesting he do bad things. (?!) I had already and just recently at that point, read Seth's (Jane Robert's) book "The Nature of Personal Reality", which gave me a framework and vocabulary for a lot of experiences that I simply had no context for until then (I am eternally grateful to both of them and Rob, the transcriber/etc. for their insights and writing). As "alternate selves" and "alternate realities" and "simultaneous lives because there is really no time" and so forth were all covered quite well by Seth's theories, this sort of thing was fortunately not terrifying to me as it is to some like the guy in the book (who promptly turned himself in to a psychiatrist), it is simply part of my overall theology/philosophy/metaphysics that such things are obviously possible as they happen to me, but that doesn't mean I have to assign anything grand to it. But it is annoying in RV, because apparently my subconscious, which will use ANYTHING as a diversion I sometimes think, has decided that is novel enough (it's been years since I had this) to qualify. So I am trying to do an RV session and feel like growsing, "Would you SHUT UP already?!" to the reality-stream just under the surface but just up top enough to be interfering. For all the theories about signal line and noise (I don't believe the signal line theory, though I appreciate the model), it is a humorous play on that, like when you are listening to this cool song on the radio, and 6pm or 6am comes and suddenly another station's broadcast starts crowding yours out (radio stations often are licensed for 'power' by day/time). Now, it does NOT interfere with ordinary reality at all (at this point anyway), it's too subtle for that, but it can interfere with "grasping subtle psi data" from inside oneself, certainly. -------- Now, the Q&A I have exampled for y'all, my experiments with session approach, sort of relate to this. Prior to beginning that, I began having something I guess I've always had happen but usually ignore, an awareness of "sound" that is often quite loud, but my mind says, "That is not from this reality" and so I ignore it -- without it even consciously striking me that any of this has happened. Well I have been making the attempt to pay attention to my thoughts, and my mental processing, and as a result, began to get more aware of this happening again, realizing how often it does. I assume such things are also either bleedthrough, or a physiological translation of something at the energetic level. No big deal. Synchronicity is coming up. But the Q&A session approach was a way of attempting to "tune into myself". I used to jokingly call that "channeling self." But it can be as totally wrong as right, or any mix -- like anything else, it depends on one's clarity on a variety of levels and at that very moment. I was very happy to have a few good sessions with that approach, and really FELT 'in touch' with myself. I mean I literally felt as if I had touched a deep-inside part of myself that was so happy to be encountered, validated, loved by association. I felt like I was getting to know something I had a huge, delightful crush on -- my inner self. That was nice. Of course, typical for me, I then promptly had several miserable sessions where I could not even make target contact, I just wandered around and invented. :-) This is very common for me after having some good sessions ('good' more related to how I FEEL about the session than the data result). I actually believe that most developing viewers have this issue but most get it very SLOWLY -- perhaps after a couple months or a year, and then they change method or something and it's okay again, for awhile. I just get it very QUICKLY -- a change in method to just about anything will bring 1-3 really enjoyable sessions, followed by utter disconnect from anything I try to view. If I change the method again, it's good again -- but as soon as my subC seems to figure out it's working, then that is blocked too. Now you see why I'm so interested in concurrent psychological development alongside RV... I started feeling like I was at war with myself. Like I'd be saying, "Rook, to D5!" and subC would always come back with, "Check!" But, I am glad for the speed of the pattern. I've often -- whenever I made the slightest focus on 'being aware' -- had reality-results pretty fast... the closer I got to "being in the center" as I called it, the faster it happened, until it was what I called "instant karma" (a pun on the John Lennon song) where literally I could see changes in my reality following even just my thought process within seconds, and could "connect" how my thoughts and my environ were dancing for the end result I call 'reality'. But, it has been a long time, and I am just beginning again here, so the results are mild... but still, useful, because the speed is allowing me to see very clearly what is happening, how, and do a lot of experimenting with it, without this taking years of my life. I think the Q&A with self sessions somewhat amped up the "bleedthrough", just because I was practicing "listening to myself" as my focus of data collection. If I did not seem to be so darn many people on perhaps larger levels of consciousness (a sort of group-soul concept I suppose, that was one thing I never liked about Seth's writings, but it repeatedly seemed to demonstrate itself to me in so many ways) then listening to myself would be less confusing I assume! I considered not posting any of this. Despite that even through experiences that would put most people in straightjackets, I have remained seemingly rational and well balanced (at least externally!), I sometimes consider that the RV field has a lot of people who (a) are not stable already, (b) are not psychic enough to encounter 'spontaneous' stuff much so have no context at all for even imagining it, and/or (c) are highly judgemental about everybody else, as field politics are apparently a more interesting way to spend time than actually DOing remote viewing. So I thought, I shouldn't bore the list with this. But then I thought, it is possible that here, or someday reading the archives from here, some other person will be having some subtle spontaneous experience as a possible result of practicing RV and related development. And so maybe my post will make sense to them and make them feel better about it. So here it is. Rambling, as always... PJ Reply | Forward


From: Bill Pendragon Date: Thu Sep 5, 2002 9:33 am Subject: Decline Effect/Changing Methods docsavagebill Hi PJ, Your mention of having to change the technique after every few good sessions to keep from getting shut down is very familiar. Marty Rosenblatt during our PIA trials on ARV has documented this "beginners luck" phenomenae and he has a slide show (as well as some other articles at I've come to realize this "corruption" of the method that occurs with repetition, as a regular interference. I'm interested in thoughts on how to control it from anyone who has serious thoughts on it. It is a SERIOUS problem with any RV application I've done. Rob Abbott says its the concious mind trying to break thru and take control of the process. But also I have wondered if ones misses produce negative thought blocks that derail the process. So after a couplae of misses the mind just has a bias that it won't work any more. Best Regards, Bill Reply | Forward


From: "scottrver" Date: Thu Sep 5, 2002 3:40 pm Subject: Re: Decline Effect/Changing Methods scottrver Hi Bill, Does Marty's protocol still uses the animal, vegetable, mineral categories? If so, I think he has too few categories. This is addressed in the paper on target pool bandwidth by May, Spottiswoode, (et al?). I also don't agree with his allowing viewers to self-judge, in spite of Greg K's results. My own limited experience with it is that it results in more displacement - especially over time. The decline effect is well documented in random number generator experiments - which appear to be pre-cognitive as opposed to PK. I experienced it myself. I think the target pool bandwidth issue applies there too. I haven't heard of people losing their ability to RV or ARV over time, even if they keep the same RV methodology and do sessions using the same target pool over and over again. I asked James Spottiswoode about recycling targets once and he said it hadn't been a problem. Scott pjrv : Messages : 628-637 of 4038


From: "Glyn" Date: Wed Sep 4, 2002 5:17 pm Subject: Re: Reality bleedthroughs. gebega Hi PJ, No, you were not rambling, I think I understand what you mean, and it is an interesting process and also a little un-nerving. I have noticed that since I have been doing RV a lot that I occasionally appear to be slightly 'out of synch' with myself. Now this is difficult to explain. My experiences are not exactly like yours, but I have definitely noticed them. Maybe it's everything to do with creating more connections between the hemispheres of the brain, or slipping out of beta and into alpha more easily because we practice it so much. I know very little of the sciences of the brain/mind, but I do know that a heck of a lot is still unknown. The only way I can describe it is as if there is an undercurrent beneath my prime consciousness which I sometimes dip my toe into without meaning to; that is to say when I am not in session, just going about my day to day business. Lets face it, we spend a lot of time trying to get in closer contact with that 'river' that runs beneath us.................the sub, cosmic consciousness, universal mind, matrix, akashic record, undermind, overmind, thingy.........or whatever we may choose to name it. If we succeed in doing that, if we succeed in thinning that 'barrier', yes, I believe then that there will probably be bleed-through occasionally. That 'barrier', for want of a better word, is I think there to preserve our sense of linear reality so that we can exist in whatever this place is without going 'ga-ga'........ as our conscious minds probably could not even begin to process the massive input otherwise; because they are not designed to. IMO as long as we recognise this, and control things by keeping our feet firmly placed in reality and not getting flaky then hopefully we will be able to handle it. Those are my thoughts about it anyway. It's comforting to know that most of the long-term RVers are still sane anyway. Well, they appear to be. LOL!! Kind regards, Glyn Reply | Forward


From: "Nita...ulse.com" Date: Wed Sep 4, 2002 7:04 pm Subject: Re: Reality bleedthroughs. nitahickok Hi PJ I have a few ideas for you. I do work on problems like this all of the time. It is why a lot of times I just don't do RV except ARV for Marty. I have more work than I can handle. 1. You are tuning into a soul mate or twin soul and both of you are probably wondering the same things. It is something the inner self would long for and search for in this life. We can have more than one around in a lifetime. 2. You have just made some major decisions and have a alternate lifetime where different decisions were made running parallel to yours. It would explain the static and noise until it moves in a different direction. Did these events occur mostly around major decisions? 3. Where you live may have a crucial occurance that affects everyone in the area. It is in such a turmoil that the time lines don't have any patterns. Three is not a problem that re-occurs but the other two might be some interesting thoughts for you. I do prayers and affirmations all of the time. I believe that all religions pray to different faces of God. It is still the same God. Nita Self-Reflection is the school of Wisdom Reply | Forward


From: joan003...nk.net Date: Thu Sep 5, 2002 10:29 am Subject: Re: Reality bleedthroughs. joanie003 Hi PJ, I don't have much to add to this...just that it was synchronistic that a friend of mine told me the other night that he has seen (non-ordinarily) his "other self" in journey work and such - person has the same name too!! but looks different. Also I am aware that people naturally develop dissociated identities when they experience severe childhood trauma and it's a good thing - a survival mechanism of the psyche. And Colin Ross has a good book called Bluebird about how dissociated identities are created in people by others. However, it can become unnerving later in life. This would be different and I suppose discovered as to whether there is "missing time," time distortions, as well as a number of other factors explored in the symptomology of DID. That is for each person to discover for oneself with the compassionate assistance of a trained healing professional and a support system. I also thought Nita's ideas, including the energies of space/location were EXCELLENT! I think you are courageous to be exploring this and also believe you are totally sane in exploring the mysteries of who you are....Those mysteries as you say may be the similar to what others are experiencing and exploring them shall truly offer much benefit and insight. In the Spirit, Joanie

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