pjrv : Messages : 1117-1218 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/1117?)
22:56:25
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#1117
From: "PJ Gaenir"
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 10:39 am
Subject: Sessions 2.20.1 and 2.20.2 dennanm
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This is a learning experience someone else might find of value.
I'd had several targets miles off (I believed) and quit practicing
for a month to 'work on my psychology' as I felt my subconscious was
deliberately sabotaging me. (It might have been. But in retrospect, I
am just so overly critical about my performance that I'm taking it
far too seriously!) Then when I began again, I had three days where I
couldn't get data on anything. Even wrong data!
Finally I told myself to get a move on and 10/30 decided to do
a 'real' session with a theta cooldown etc. Was repeatedly
interrupted in a state of mind where an interruption would startle me
to the extreme, but anyway, you get what you get so I kept on. I
felt I made target contact.
The feedback, though, only had a few things in common with my
session. But I felt SURE that I had described what I knew from the
feedback had to be mere feet from the feedback focus itself. I mean
it's one thing to describe something "near" but this was intimately
involved with what the target was doing, not entirely separable.
I finally gave in, and blew the protocol by going out to find
additional feedback to see if my descriptions had just been utter
fabrication - my biggest fear - or if there was some reason for my
repeating data I felt so sure of.
The session quite well matches the feedback if one includes the
second feedback. Joe told me it was a targeting problem.
Essentially it's not a beginning target (I knew that) and in a
perfect practice world I wouldn't have put it in my target pool
without the "context" it was involved with.
Of course, the two pieces of totally symbolic data made perfect sense
once I saw the feedback, as usual, but were baffling in session, lol.
I have scanned the session, feedbacks, intro notes and ending notes
into a PDF file. Warning, it's big, 18 pages or so and nearly 3megs,
it'll take awhile to get fully downloaded in your browser even on
DSL. Might be easier to right-click the link below and "save as" to
your hard drive and THEN open from there and delete when done. I
scanned at high res sorry.
http://www.firedocs.com/pjrvstuff/Session-2.20.pdf
Page 10, 11, top of 12, top of 15, top of 16 are the data summaries --
the rest is illegible so I recommend just looking at those. I'd have
typed notes but people are often going on about "raw data" so I
thought I'd post another raw one, ought to once in awhile.
PJ
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#1121
From: "PJ Gaenir"
Date: Tue Nov 5, 2002 11:14 am
Subject: Re: Sessions 2.20.1 and 2.20.2 dennanm
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And a bit of humor - I was wondering about the session data right
near the end, which was so interesting an experience, "What was the
zillions of little pieces of energy" all over?!
Right after I got the first feedback on that session I sighed, went
in and checked email, and a friend sent me a link to an article re:
some upcoming physics research, and I read the line,
"What may be thought of as empty space is actually teeming with
fleeting particles and electromagnetic fields."
And I groaned! I guess that this might have related to the data....
this coming so close to feedback on a target in space. :-)
PJ
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#1142
From: Bill Pendragon
Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 6:36 pm
Subject: Re: Displacement experience docsavagebill
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I was working a target and had the problem that too
much info was comming in.. streams of information but
different each time I viewed. Normally I dont have
that problem.. But at least three separate target
descriptions came accross IMO..the dats just poured
out but an unrelated chaos of things. One was a man
with hand out in front of the corner of a brown
building on a busy street in a big city .. Two other
scenes came accross totally unrelated I won't discuss
herre.... but the next day while reading the new york
times .. duh duh! There was the scene I had RVed..with
the exact shape and color of building and a mans
extended hand.."Wow!" I think.."I displaced from Eve's
tasking all the way to the NY times".
Eve your RI is weak!....G
Best Regards,
Bill
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#1150
From: "Greg Kolodziejzyk"
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 3:46 pm
Subject: RE: Displacement experience gregkolodzie...
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Hi folks, it's Greg here - I'm new to the group.
On displacement:
Don't forget that there is a TON of randomness going on here as well. This
may differ from what some of you may think, but I believe the research data
implies this: sometimes when you remote view, you think of completely
useless, random stuff which has absolutely nothing to do with anything.
Sometimes when you flip a coin that happens, and sometimes when you roll the
dice, random outcomes also occur. I know, it's depressing to accept that
occasionally your investment into a session of time and energy goes to
complete waste, but I'm afraid that not only is that a fact of remote
viewing, it's also a fact of life.
Bill - I'm not suggesting that you DIDN'T displace from your target to the
New York Times, but I'm suggesting that it's a very real and surprisingly
strong possibility. There are times where you will record ACCURATE
perceptions about an ALTERNATE ARV target or even your dinner that are just
unlucky random coincidences.
Don't discount the fact that shit happens because it's statistically likely
to.
On the other hand (here's where I start arguing with myself) - perhaps the
cause of all displacement is the fact that you looked for it. (food for
thought...)
Regards,
Greg K
http://www.remote-viewing.com/
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Moderator's note: Research says that about 30% of the data in any given session
can apply to about 30% of the targets in any given pool. Actually we talked
about all this some time ago as well. It is sort of demoralizing in a way. On
the other hand, the "chicken and egg" question of whether it's displacement if
you notice it, vs. merely error if you didn't, is a tough one. :-) PJ
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#1168
From: Bill Pendragon
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 8:13 pm
Subject: RE: Displacement experience docsavagebill
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Hi Greg,
Great to have you on board! Actually , I'm used to
displacement in ARV and take it as a matter of course
and try to dismiss it from my mind. But I hadn't had
it happen dramatically in regular RV yet.. that blew
my mind.. I wasn't looking for it at all. But I was
way too insistent that I "get something" during the
session IMO.. I've decided to lock in my target
better by constantly reminding myself.".target data
only target data only." as I do in ARV..
Best Regards,
Bill.
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The first time I insisted I 'get data' when I wanted more, I described in detail
a fountain that did not begin to exist in my target (I had water near the center
of the target and was pressing really hard to get something more detailed on
what turned out to be a shallow, amorpheous semi-pond probably left by rain).
It was the center focus in my next target, though. :-)
A session I did a few months ago I think it was, I did that again, and got a
clear moving visual of a guy climbing down the short ladder of the side of a
boat, like a big yacht or something. Ended the session, got feedback, session
sucked, went through pictures with my kid and saw nearly all the details of my
session except that one really vivid one. Disgusted, agreed to watch a Disney
movie with her, came in and sat down and first thing I saw was the exact scene
from the session. Sigh. I guess I just wasn't focused enough.
Sometimes I think the best value to doing a LOT of RV is learning when it is NOT
working, when better contact is not happening, when more data is not coming --
and letting that be okay. I'm still working on that. -- PJ
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#1183
From: "Glyn"
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 1:16 pm
Subject: RE: Displacement experience gebega
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Hi PJ and all,
> PJ said...
> .......Disgusted, agreed to watch a Disney
> movie with her, came in and sat down and first
> thing I saw was the exact scene from the session.
> Sigh. I guess I just wasn't focused enough.
> Sometimes I think the best value to doing a LOT
> of RV is learning when it is NOT working, when
> better contact is not happening, when more data is
> not coming -- and letting that be okay. I'm
> still working on that. -- PJ
I sympathise, that happens to me soooo many times, and if I could get RV
images as clear I would be a very happy bunny :-).
Something is going on here, because people often report such apparent
'displacement' impressions/images as really clear and accurate. Now surely
if it was a matter of t lack of focus causing us to go to another target,
then the data should come through about as clearly as our normal impressions
when RVing. But that is not so, they can be much much better; like you said
above 'the exact scene'. Why??
Which is why experiential sites like yours are so valuable PJ.. To keep
people writing in about their day to day RVing experiences and observations,
even if they are perceived to be failures; and the comments about the
apparently but unusual things; and ponderings like yours. We *need* to know
about the failures as well as the successes, and examine them.........
because one day some parts of the jigsaw may (probably will) just 'pop' to
the surface and click together nicely. Something you can't really design an
experiment to catch because you don't know what you're looking for.
It's a matter of keeping our eyes open and noses to the ground; like a bunch
of RV Bloodhounds :-)
Regards,
Glyn.
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#1169
From: "Greg Kolodziejzyk"
Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 9:56 pm
Subject: RE: Displacement experience gregkolodzie...
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> Greg K's comment on moderators note:
> "Moderator's note: Research says that about 30%
> of the data in any given session can apply to
> about 30% of the targets in any given pool.
> Actually we talked about all this some time ago
> as well. It is sort of demoralizing in a way.
> On the other hand, the "chicken and egg" question
> of whether it's displacement if you notice it,
> vs. merely error if you didn't, is a tough one.
> :-) PJ"
That's EXACTLY right on PJ. As part of my really really complicated and time
consuming ARV protocol (it's really not as much fun as I make it sound), I
'pull out' the very best RV perceptions and compare them to 100 random
photographs to QUANTIFY how good the hit really was. You would be surprised
at how often your "wow - I am amazing" hits match random pictures by chance.
It is humbling but ARV works much better when you are BRUTALLY honest.
gk
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#1186
From: "Sharon Webb"
Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 6:36 pm
Subject: Re: Displacement experience sharwebb_30512
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Hi,
Displacement happens quite often in Silva work, too.
Often I am aware of it enough to feel that it is someone else I am reading
instead of the target. When that happens, I tell the inquirer
(if he/she is present) that I'm getting info, but I think it may not apply
to the person targeted. In almost every case, it will turn out to be
someone related closely to the target...like brother, brother-in-law, etc.
And the info is usually very distinctive to that other person.
Sharon
sharwebb...net
www.fractalus.com/sharon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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#1205
From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Sat Nov 9, 2002 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: Displacement experience maliolana
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Aloha Glyn,
)It's a matter of keeping our eyes open and
noses to the ground; like a bunch
of RV Bloodhounds :-){
Hey I like that...RV Bloodhounds...haha...What were
they called in Heinlein's "Stranger In A Strange Land"?...
Truthsayers?...or was it Fair Witness?
One of the things we are required to do at PIA... is give the % of the
descriptors ...we think we got correct...before feedback...as well as
pick the correct photo...I have had several times when I felt I was so
'with the signal'...that I even gave myself 100%...
Well I don't do that too often anymore...
Seems like a curse or something...
Most of the time...I could see where my analysis made a wrong turn and
how the descriptors could clearly have identified the correct photo for
me...If I had only been more focused and analytical and more
aware/discriminating...when judging...if...
The ones I truly hate...are the ones that don't fit anything...This type
is rare... but makes itself known ...just enough... to bum one out!...
I now try to mindset myself not to believe nor disbelieve...in my
data...simply suspend disbelief (as we say in the theatre...and I am
lucky to have had some practice at that)...and just record that
data...because as you and PJ have mentioned ...the best ones of all
...are not the target ...usually......and when I let my feelings get
into the rhelm of judging...it is about 50-50...Well usually...
I have to switch up my personal experimental program every now and
then......or else I have been taking a downturn...and 3-5 of those is
a bummer...
I don't know if I could hang in there from 25 or so straight
losses...Like MeMoneagle...That man has an elastic ego...Man that is
preserverance...
Of course I am thinking/ investigating/ or at least paying attention
to...... every seemingly tangential variable that comes along...each
in its turn...
I think...biorythyms are important...In spite of the fact... that I could
be setting myself up...except for the fact that I do not know at what
thresholds ...of the four known
biorythyms(Intellectual/Physical/Intuitional/Emotional)... psi may be
effected ...or even if any of them do have an effect...just a hunch...
Perhaps psi is higher when we hit a biorythmic intuitional
middle/low...then when at a very high level...seems logical...if this
correlates with the currant assumptions on LST...SWS...
also assuming I understand what I just read...This is only one possible
assumption...obviously...less wind ...less noise...less stress...less
chaos...less assault on the senses...?...My intellectual rythyms are
currantly due for a dive... so if this doesn't make any sense...that is
my excuse for the next few days...
PS...The self direction... where we cue ourselves to view only the
Feedback Photo...(not both choices)...well...the self doesn't always
listen......
but I keep trying...works for a while...I always mention it in
passing...to myself...but I think I am better at this lately... I think
my focus is getting better...we'll see...
Love & Light & Laughter
Mali'o...aka...Dawna
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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#1207
From: "Glyn"
Date: Sun Nov 10, 2002 11:40 am
Subject: RE: Displacement experience gebega
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Hi Dawna,
> I think...biorythyms are important...
Ooops! all 4 cycles are at a low but going up. I have a 'bug' at the
moment and am feeling very low, so you never know.
> Perhaps psi is higher when we hit a biorythmic intuitional
> middle/low...then when at a very high level...
I've now decided not to look at these things in advance, but after the
session I record such things, and anything else I think could be significant.
> but I keep trying...works for a while...I always mention it in
> passing...to myself...but I think I am better at this lately... I think
> my focus is getting better...we'll see...
Oh it's so frustrating isn't it?!
I'm of two minds about this 'viewing the photo' (feedback) or 'going to
the target' thing. I know that viewing the feedback is considered as a sort
of second-class thing. Well personally I 'm grateful for the smallest
mercies, and as long as I get something of the target I'm not that fussed
where it comes from :-). I'll leave such discrimination for when I get far
more successful at RV.
Personally I think it's all one and the same anyway, but that's tantamount
to heresy in some circles I think, so I'll leave that discussion for
sometime in the future when I'm in the mood and have the strength . LOL!
Kind regards,
Glyn
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#1218
From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 2:05 am
Subject: Re: Displacement experience maliolana
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Aloha Glynn,
I hear where your coming from...and I am with you...I will use it...if it
works...I will continue to use it...whatever it is......As long as
some technique helps bring in the info...I am for it!~...hahaha
Yeah I check the Bio chart after I view...(of course I kinda know where
they are at anyway)...but the sidereal clock is ever present.....right
on the screen at all times...
I did the majority of all my views at PIA...quick and dirty...in alpha
with chaos all around...and only a little cool down...
So now...I am trying to get some peaceful more controlled environment
ones in at Theta...(not REM...just into theta)...and my hits have
definately gone up...so far
Love & Light & Laughter
Mali'o...aka...Dawna
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