pjrv : Messages : 3621-3623 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3621?)
15:55:14
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#3621
From: "Elizabeth Hambrook"
Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 6:47 am
Subject: Re: Social Avoidance ozblueriver
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> I got a PEM a few weeks ago from an old friend,
> griping that there is little talk on most the RV
> related lists and what talk there is, is often trivial.
Hi PJ,
I think this is a 'problem' not only on the net but in our lives as well. How
many of us have someone in our lives we can have a truely deep and meaningful
conversation with. It rarely happens and that's why most of us chat on the net
in the first place .......because no one in our lives cares less about psi let
alone RV.
So we get on the net and yes most of the conversation is still trivial but there
is an undercurrent of knowing that we all connect with our interest in psi and
that if and when something crops up that we need to discuss then we have at
least a couple of people who will understand where we are coming from.
Then there is the bigger picture. Evolution is slow and steady. And keeping that
in mind, I think the collective 'We' makes the smaller 'we' keep growth and
learning at that steady slow pace.
Maybe it's just not time yet to have lots of good indepth conversations because
most people aren't quite ready for it yet. So the vanguards that bravely forge
ahead need to keep a partial silence until information is needed by the
collective 'We'.
This would all be on an unconscious level and it's only my theory but you never
know, I could be right about something one day. LOL
cheers
Liz
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#3623
From: Weatherly-Hawaii...m
Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 12:01 am
Subject: Re: Social Avoidance maliolana
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PJRV is coming back...and PJ has a new group about to start...doing
sessions at TTR...Imagine how she felt... when she first came back after
4 years...She was real bummed...
The old timers don't want to be seen arguing in public...They rather keep
it in house...Like most religions
pjrv : Messages : 3619-3691 of 4038
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pjrv/messages/3619?)
16:02:10
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#3619
From: "pjgaenir"
Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:18 pm
Subject: Social Avoidance pjgaenir
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Speaking of avoidance.
I got a PEM a few weeks ago from an old friend, griping that there is little
talk on most the RV related lists and what talk there is, is often trivial.
It occurred to me to wonder, if the people who are Serious with a capital S
don't bother talking, don't bother participating, how can they complain that
they don't relate to what is on the discussion lists? They could help set the
tone and the standard if they contributed. Yet they have nothing to do with it,
they sit back like an audience, and then gripe because the only people who seem
to do much talking anywhere, don't seem serious or focused enough for them.
Any group could be a 'serious and focused' list with just a few 'serious and
focused' conversationalists.
I wonder what it is in the RV field that makes people so reclusive about
discussing actual RV. I'm not talking about sharing super personal stuff, just
RV. Have we evolved (devolved?) into a more politically correct, kinder,
gentler kind of field?
Or is it related to the internal changes? I find I often very much feel like
'holding my energy'--feel like closing down on the outside, and I want to avoid
communication altogether. I am forced to get over it by the nature of my job.
But perhaps the internal changes that all developing viewers go through,
contribute to their not being in the mood to communicate at all, let alone with
a whole list.
We've got whole groups of methods people who take themselves very seriously, and
have the potential for wonderful conversation, mutual education and more, but
not much of it happens, and when they de-lurk to talk, it's mostly to attack
something, not discuss RV. What can be done about it. Nothing I guess. Not
by anybody but them.
Or is it just a matter of 95% of the population waiting for the 5% that actually
does something to get around to doing it so they can watch? I felt frustrated.
There are so many awesome people in this field, almost none of whom I get to
talk with anywhere near as much as I'd like, some I end up emailing once a year
and just feeling guilty about. Many of them, will talk PEM but not on lists. I
see a lot of potential in the field that is not being very well explored.
I want to be able to discuss daily hands-on practice issues, personal stuff,
theory--"serious" conversation as some might think of it. But I don't know how
to do that unless the lurkers help create the kind of talk they'd like to see
more of.
PJ
PS Am just trying to wind myself down to sleep here, tomorrow the tot will be
up early for presents! Bet I'm putting everybody else to sleep too, LOL. But
stop me when I'm wrong... this seems like one of those things that is patently
obvious but nobody ever talks about.
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#3620
From: Bill Pendragon
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:59 pm
Subject: Re: On serious discussion docsavagebill
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Hello PJ,
I think there are lots of reasons for this. Just a few
I've noted:
1) the people that teach classes in RV are not much
interested in giving advanced secrets away free on the
lists.
2) they constrain their senior students from doing the
same thing.
3) There is a mix of levels of skill and always new
people such that repetition of basics gets monotonous,
and requires a little silliness just to stay alive and
worth reading.
4) Many people around for along time enjoy chatting
with each other on a personality level which adds zest
to the discussion if not overdone.
5) There is a huge diversity of opinion at all levels
that causes constant bickering.
FINALLY..6) There just isn't that much to say 365 days
a year that is serious and thoughtful and NEW. This
is not to discourage serious and novel discussion..but
my understanding of why it is hard to find.
Best Regards,
Bill
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#3628
From: "Bill and Sandy Ray"
Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 5:03 pm
Subject: RE: On serious discussion firedust2
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Hi Bill, PJ, and All
I am not quite sure why there is a lack of serious discussion. What RV
discussion there is seems to be abstract. When there is a mechanical or a
solid question, I think there is plenty of discussion including comments
from the more experienced viewers. But there is nothing wrong with having
this as a social net first and an RV discussion group second.
I am not sure there are secrets in RV. Practice, hard work, and staying in
structure seem to work real well. The more you do RV the more likely you
are to recognize what is going on. I think there is a lot of RV talent out
there. I was very impressed by everyone who worked the out bounder we did a
while back.
Slainte
Bill Ray
-------------------
Well what's odd is, I can have discussion till the cows come home with 20 people
via PEM about remote viewing and related personal experience, but that stuff
never makes it to a public list, where others could share in it, even though
much of it is not really that personal. I also find it interesting that
questions related to say, psychological resistance to psi get no play like
nobody encounters that, making me seriously wonder how many people are really
viewing frankly, yet some minor point of methodology can go on forever. It
seems to me that the experiential aspect of RV is almost avoided in online
discussion. Which to me is the most interesting part of it all. PJ
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#3629
From: Bill Pendragon
Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:39 pm
Subject: People/Animal Data in Targets docsavagebill
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Hi Bill,
Here is a serious question for you. I have a hard time
getting "people" and animals at the target. If I do
it's because they have an unusual garment or angle to
there face. So what's the secret to getting a signal
that says "human or animal is here without having to
sketch an entire face?
Best Regards,
Bill
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#3636
From: "Bill and Sandy Ray"
Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:31 pm
Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets firedust2
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Hi Bill
> Here is a serious question for you. I have a hard time
> getting "people" and animals at the target. If I do
> it's because they have an unusual garment or angle to
> there face. So what's the secret to getting a signal
> that says "human or animal is here without having to
> sketch an entire face?
Good to hear from you. I will try to keep this short, but I think it will
be necessary to look at several types of RV in order to get a better
understanding of ways to deal with the problem. Please remember what I am
saying is just my opinion based on my own experience and training. CRV
deals with this quite easily. In stage 4 people and animals come in under
the T (tangibles) column. There is a lot of information out there that you
can pick up about the person or animal under the I (Intangible), S2, and D
(Dimension) columns. My favorite is the EI (Emotional Impact) column, which
will give you what emotions people at the site are feeling, and to a lesser
extent what animals are feeling. Stage 5 can provide more information and
you can always go back and sketch at anytime during the CRV process after
you have gotten past stage 2.
ERV is an excellent way to pick up information about people. IMO, ERV will
provide more information than CRV about folks (I bet Paul and Lyn would
dispute me on that), but it might not provide the information as rapidly.
You may have to go back on two or three sessions to get the information. It
is almost like you have to wear the person down by going back again and
again to get the information. You get the information by asking the person
at the site questions. There is another phenomena in ERV which is similar,
IMO, to stage 5 in CRV in that at some point you just know the information.
The monitor can ask you to describe the person and you will be able to
provide not only a fairly accurate (sometimes) description but perhaps such
things as motivation, Secrets, education, past employment and other abstract
concepts that you would not be able to get if you were physically at the
site.
Hope this helps, if not let me know and I will try again.
Slainte, Bill Ray
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#3638
From: Bill Pendragon
Date: Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:30 pm
Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets docsavagebill
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Hi Bill,
Thanks I appreciate it. I like the idea of monitoring
the EI column carefully for emotions.. different than
your own. A subtle art form worth cultivating..G. ...
But re using ERV. One has to "know" a person is there
before asking him/her questions.. how do you first get
that there is a person when doing ERV? Do you have an
inner "energy signature" or EI for a human first?
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#3644
From: "Monika Preston"
Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:39 am
Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets karimchris
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Hi Bill,
Do you also agree that in over time, using the CRV method, the viewer can
develop an ideogram for stage 1 that indicates life?
Therefore, sometimes, a viewer can pick up that the main target is a
person/animal already during this stage?
Thanks,
monika
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#3647
From: Bill Pendragon
Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 12:18 pm
Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets docsavagebill
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Hi Monika,
I find that the ideogram is very helpful and
informational..but not reliable for giving me lifeform
data. Frequently a loop will mean something else
rather than life for me anyway. The only thing that
works ( not all the time) is dowsing for that
information.
Best Regards,
Bill
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#3654
From: "Bill and Sandy Ray"
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:34 pm
Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets firedust2
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Hi Monika
I have seen several people, including yourself, develop ideograms for
animals or people. I have never done so myself. I tend to believe that
whatever works for an experienced viewer is OK to use. I would caution new
viewers to be a little careful in this area. Stage 1 is the general gestalt
of the site. Stage 2 may give you voices, which lets you know there are
people at the site. Stage 4 is where I first normally pick up people at the
site. If the site was Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris, you would expect to
pick up an ideogram for structure and one perhaps for land. If an
inexperienced viewer also picked up an ideogram for people (hunchback
ringing a bell) it might drive the viewer to focus on the people at the
site, and not the site itself, which was the structure. But again, whatever
works for an experienced viewer, like yourself, is great.
Bill
> Do you also agree that in over time, using the CRV method, the viewer can
> develop an ideogram for stage 1 that indicates life?
> Therefore, sometimes, a viewer can pick up that the main target is a
> person/animal already during this stage?
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#3656
From: "Monika Preston"
Date: Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:23 pm
Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets karimchris
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Hi Bill,
I am just a student of the very best, most patient CRV teacher out there :-)
and you know whom I mean :-)
Yes, stage 1 should provide the general gestalt. However, if the target is
in fact a life form (animal/human), would that not mean that this IS the
general gestalt? And the description of the surrounding comes later in the
session?
Or does general gestalt mean in all cases the surrounding area? Geez, hope
this is not a stupid question LOL
Just an example:
Got a phone call from a friend with coordinates.
My first impression was an AOL: Toby-brown hair. (Toby is my friend's dog)
Then I had ideograms for trees, structure, and water. My hand still wanted
to draw the ideogram for life. But, still pre-occupied by the AOL, I refused
the impulse that it was a life form I was viewing.
In stage 2 I felt a strong emotional impact. Like I was crouching, crawling,
and fearful. Close to the earth, a higher sense of smell.
Stage 4 finally brought me back to hair, hiding, and curling up, cold.
Anyway, target was a neighbor's dog being lost. He was found a day later
close to the water in the shrubs, near the site where they dig sand out of
the water.
All the best and Happy New Year!!!
monika
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#3688
From: "Bill and Sandy Ray"
Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 11:47 am
Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets firedust2
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Hi Monika
Thanks for the kind words. I agree with you if the viewer is an experienced
viewer. If the viewer has the experience to handle this with out going over
to the left side of his brain to try and logic out what his sub-conscious is
trying to tell him. Most complex targets will not get resolved until Stage
4 anyway, so at what point you pick up people or animals may not be that
important. As for your example, it is an example of an experienced viewer.
More than that it is an example of a very good, experienced CRVer, who is
also an ERVer. I would suspect that you worked that site as much ERV as you
did CRV. Your normal CRVer will not be able to do that. Good hearing from
you
Slainte
Bill
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#3691
From: "Monika Preston"
Date: Sun Jan 4, 2004 1:27 pm
Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets karimchris
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Hi Bill,
Guess you're right. I probably mixed CRV and ERV without really noticing it.
However, I actually prefer the structured CRV when I work alone. But as you
noticed, ERV must have slipped in :-)
It's so good to participate in RV discussions again, haven't had the time to
do that for quite a while, nor did I have the time to practice much lately.
monika
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#3664
From: Bill Pendragon
Date: Fri Jan 2, 2004 2:22 am
Subject: RE: People/Animal Data in Targets docsavagebill
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> Bill Ray wrote: Stage 4 is where I first
> normally pick up people at the
> site.
Hi Bill..
Hmmmm Maybe I had better read about stage 4. I
normally stop after stage 3. Perhaps that's the reason
for this block..G
Bill
-------------------
Much of a session's value starts at Stage 4.
How could you leave this out?! Oh. Is it 'cause
you took just a basic CRV course? PJ
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#3630
From: "smitty97006"
Date: Sun Dec 28, 2003 6:45 pm
Subject: Re: On serious discussion smitty97006
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I think Mr Bill is exactly right.
Gene
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